Skill-based Casino Games

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Game_Gran

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I'm not one of them but I can see their point - millenials do not enjoy gambling on slot machines or other games that involve chance alone. Poker doesn't seem to be their cup of tea either. Raised on computer games, they prefer skill based games. How long can the casino industry go without capitalizing on these preferences?

http://tinyurl.com/k66hvqz
 
OzExorcist

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That all depends - if you mean games where if they're skillful enough they can get an edge over the house, the answer is unequivocally "never". casinos aren't that stupid.

If you just mean games where they have some input in the outcome, then they already exist: blackjack, pai gow poker, so on and so forth. See also sports betting.
 
lcid86

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Also, look at the average age of a casino patron. It would be interesting to see the demographic trends on the average age versus 10 years ago. Sportsbook tends to be young, but the rest of the room is getting very grey.
 
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love that omaha

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Blackjack is a skill based game if you level the playing field by recruiting 4 or 5 players who will play optimally it is truly 50/50 so if you bet bigger when you are winning than when you are losing you can almost always turn a profit - the only question is are you willing to leave with 150 dollar profit. If the answer is yes blackjack is way more optimal choice than NLHE tourneys imo. Cash games where blinds do not escalate and force action are still higer ev to me especially mixed games
 
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freestocks

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I counted cards at blackjack. It can be profitable.
 
OzExorcist

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love that omaha said:
The only question is are you willing to leave with 150 dollar profit, or when the casino kicks you out for advantage playing

FYP :p

Unless you're not talking about card counting - in that case ordinary optimal play will minimise the house edge, but it'll still be -EV. It shouldn't matter whether it's just you at the table or whether you've got someone in every box playing optimally either, the house will still have an edge.
 
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Lheticus

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I'd be very interested in data concerning just how many people in their 20-30s these days truly prefer games where the skill component is a greater factor than the luck component. I agree that casinos won't get rid of the house edge even if hell does freeze over, but it's an intriguing thought that it's possible people would get that collectively fed up with that inevitability. I wonder how much truth there really is to that possibility?
 
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Interesting Comments, all.

Happy to see that this post is generating some blow back since integrating an element of skill into casino based games that previously had no skill component at all, i.e.slot machines, is a reality. See this recent article . . .http://tinyurl.com/oqwkf7u

There has always been an element of skill, very small in some cases, in casino table games. At the very least, money-management is a learned skill that can help a gambler turn a profit on a slightly more than regular basis. Blackjack can involve skill and savvy more than most games but, money management aside, roulette and baccarat, are pretty much a coin toss. Yes, systems come and go and some work for a while but the casino ekes out it's vig in the end.

I agree that poker can turn a decent gambler a profit more times than not, especially cash games that are less subject to the huge variances found in tournament play. And, aside from the all-to-common-nowadays "re-buy" option, which in my opinion turns poker tournaments into fiascos for pros to take advantage of, good tournament skills can be learned.

Any game that finds a place on a casino floor will have to turn a profit for the company or out it goes. And, keep in mind that the casino needs to win, even if it's only a small percentage, ALL the time. They win when you lose, of course, and they win when you win too!
 
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sryImPro

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i wouldn't say that there's something such as skill in casino games. Not if we don't talk about blackjack where all skill comes to card counting what casino industry flagged as cheating. Just look how glamorous look every single casino around and you'll understand the meaning of "you can't beat the house"
 
Marcwantstowin

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i wouldn't say that there's something such as skill in casino games. Not if we don't talk about blackjack where all skill comes to card counting what casino industry flagged as cheating. Just look how glamorous look every single casino around and you'll understand the meaning of "you can't beat the house"

Expertly put. Another old addage is "I've never seen a skint bookie" comes to mind and although "card counting" is cheating - I would say it is the only way you can win consistantly, ask Phil Ivey about that - even then you lose. Gl with that I say...............:argh: :argh: :argh:
 
Adubzz

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What kind of games should we expect to see? If they put in those arcade games where you have to hit the button at the exact time to hit the jackpot. I have bad news for you. Those can be set to payout at certain intervals as well.
 
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Game_Gran

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You can rest assured tat whatever kinds of skill-based games end up in casinos, the corporations will have the "vig" figured out to a decimal point long before they go on the floor. The issue is really about getting the next generation of gamblers into the casino.

Young people, especially men, like the thrill and the excitement of no-limit poker but that doesn't earn nearly enough money to keep casinos going. The number of poker rooms closing around the country is frightening. Their hopes are that some other kind of "skill-based" experience will encourage young people to risk their hard earned dollars.

They certainly spend now on mobile games and other Apps although the casinos need to alter their mind set here. Companies like King, the owner Candy Crush, make millions of dollars .99 cents at a time. I'm not sure that gambling corporations are ready to learn that lesson. They long ago dismissed the idea of making a little from a lot of people when they banished $5 blackjack tables and .25cent roulette from just about everywhere.

Change is coming. Exactly what it will look like is up for grabs. In all likelihood the changes will small and unnoticeable at first.
 
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Very nice post. Thanks for sharing. Great information.
 
OzExorcist

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Companies like King, the owner Candy Crush, make millions of dollars .99 cents at a time. I'm not sure that gambling corporations are ready to learn that lesson. They long ago dismissed the idea of making a little from a lot of people when they banished $5 blackjack tables and .25cent roulette from just about everywhere.

That model works for Candy Crush because it's an App. The problem casinos no doubt have with $5 blackjack and microstakes roulette is that they need to pay a real live human to deal the game and then make profit on top of their wages. To run those games for a lot of people, you need to pay a lot of dealers.

Some casinos have adjusted by fiddling with the rules of the game - my local casino still offers small stakes blackjack, for example, but it runs with a very player-unfriendly rule set. Among other things they've shaved the payout odds on a blackjack and a dealer 22 is a standoff, not a bust. And people keep playing because the average punter is, let's face it, an idiot :p

They've also adjusted with things like "rapid roulette" where the ball spinning process is mechanised (or sometimes computerised) and bets are made with touchscreens, not chips, so they can get in more spins per hour.

The truth is thought that you can install hundreds or even thousands of those tables, and the casino will still live or die on what it takes from the whales playing in the private salons.

As for "skill-based" games, surely what you mean is games that have the illusion of being skill-based. Because if it was possible to win at them by being skilled, the casino would never in a million years offer them. And if you can't win at them no matter how "skilled" you are, then skill is really a non-factor.

If what you mean is that there's a new generation of gamblers who want more interaction in their games than just pressing next spin on a slot machine then you may have a point.
 
Lheticus

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Saw an article from a FB friend's feed a while back where a casino was actually going to try a free throw contest tournament. It worked basically like a poker tournament, people playing against each other instead of the house and the house receiving a percentage of the buy in. My reaction is basically "wake me up when casinos start hosting video game tournaments."
 
OzExorcist

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Actually, the scary thing is there are already esports tournaments with prize pools that rival the wsop... but the prize money comes from sponsors, not buyins. No need for a casino to be involved :p
 
Lheticus

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Actually, the scary thing is there are already esports tournaments with prize pools that rival the WSOP... but the prize money comes from sponsors, not buyins. No need for a casino to be involved :p

This is the first I've heard of this. What games pay THAT kind of money?
 
OzExorcist

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I don't really follow them, but I gather DOTA is the main one. Somewhere in the order of US$25 million in tournament prize money over the past four years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dota_2#Professional_competition

League of Legends is another, though its prize money figures don't seem to be as high (still cracking the US$1 million mark occasionally though): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Legends#Tournaments

A lot of the top players make a load of money from sponsorships and ad revenue / subscriptions on their videos too.
 
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