Sitting Out

Is it considered bad ettiquette to sitout for extended period of time when playing in large field tournements? I play in alot of tournements where as soon as a player builds up a decent total they will sit out for up to 1 to 2 hours until the field shrinks then come back in.

RxMan13 said:

Is it considered bad ettiquette to sitout for extended period of time when playing in large field tournements? I play in alot of tournements where as soon as a player builds up a decent total they will sit out for up to 1 to 2 hours until the field shrinks then come back in.

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It's actually considered bad "strategy", not bad "ettiquette".

They are obviously not confident of their abilities (and rightfully so if they are sitting out with a chiplead).

whatever...etiquette or no etiquette they're bein dumb-a$$es for sittin out, and blinding away their big lead
i don't see the reasoning behind this...i guess they're just interested in the money and not the poker

Have to agree with Chuck on this.

Moved to the Poker General section.

Sitting out is almost always -EV for the sitter and +EV for everyone else at the table.

Bad etiquette? There are worse crimes in the world.

RxMan13 said:

I play in alot of tournements where as soon as a player builds up a decent total they will sit out for up to 1 to 2 hours until the field shrinks then come back in.

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Stop playing freerolls and you'll be amazed how this almost completely ceases to happen.

Actually it's not a bad strategy at times. Depending on the chip lead you can take the time out to relax and get yourself set for the next level of play in a much better shape than someone who sits at the comp trying to build a lead.

have to agree BBB , i know i would be in the money more times if i could get myself to sit out in mtt with the chip lead instead of chasing hands:withstupi

bubbasbestbabe said:

Actually it's not a bad strategy at times. Depending on the chip lead you can take the time out to relax and get yourself set for the next level of play in a much better shape than someone who sits at the comp trying to build a lead.

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Wrong.

Fish said:

Wrong.

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Okay now why do you say that? Any thing that you can use, outside of cheating to win, is totally fair. Are you saying that because it gives me an advantage at times that I shouldn't do it?
How about when I was building that chip lead,; maybe i shouldn't have done that either? Or are you saying that because it doesn't give you a crack at my chips until I decide to go back in the game?
And what is the difference between that and folding every hand until I'm ready to play again?

bubbasbestbabe said:

Okay now why do you say that? Any thing that you can use, outside of cheating to win, is totally fair. Are you saying that because it gives me an advantage at times that I shouldn't do it?
How about when I was building that chip lead,; maybe i shouldn't have done that either? Or are you saying that because it doesn't give you a crack at my chips until I decide to go back in the game?
And what is the difference between that and folding every hand until I'm ready to play again?

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It has nothing to do with ME getting YOUR chips.
It has to do with the fact that YOU have a great Opportunity to gather MORE chips. By Sitting out, you negate that +EV, and let others catch up.
There is NEVER a correct time to sit out with a large stack (or any size stack honestly). It's just plain poor strategy.
The only time it may be worth sitting out, is in at the start of a LARGE tournament with a very good blinds structure.

If you are concerned you may Lose this big stack, then at what point do you decide to play again?
Playing with a large stack is something alot of players (typically losing players usually) are afraid to do. I don't know why, they just get flustered.

To sum up, you just give away WAY too much EV to make sitting out a good play.

Unfortunately, explaining this is kind of like trying to explain to someone that internet poker is not rigged. No matter how you explain it to them, they will not change their mind.

bubbasbestbabe said:

O Any thing that you can use, outside of cheating to win, is totally fair.

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How you can WIN a tournament while sitting out is beyond me.

Etiquete or not, its plain dumb to sit out , if you have a chiplead, its time to abusse the table , steal blinds and build that stack unless you want other players to catch up. If you are shortstacked or middle stack, its time to play and try and build up the stack. I do not see how it is possible to sit out and make something positive out of it.

Players think a big stack means its time to sit out and this is so wrong. Play a sit n go ( especially the turbos ) double up in the beggining an sit until the end, you wont even make the bubble with this strategy, although i see some players in the sit n goes do it. Only time i did was, in a 10 dollar sit n go, i had AA and 4 players before me went all in , lol so i called and had 7500 chips with 5/10 blinds, there was no need for me to play until blinds where 50/100 so i decided to sit out and shower lol .

And what is the difference between that and folding every hand until I'm ready to play again? The difference is, if you are sitting out you are not a factor at the table. BBB if I had become chip leader as a result of a series of loose plays & questionable or outright dumb calls that had worked out in my favor I might choose to sit out for a few hands to calm down & get my game back in order, but I doubt it. I know, from playing with the sharks here at CC, that I am capable of throwing away good hands if necesssary, so I would sit and fold all but the very best starting hands until I felt I had my game back under control. I may be giving away some of the advantage of being the big stack but I am at the table observing my competion & they don't know why I am not active so they have to factor me in to every decision. You are too good a player to surrender this advantage for any reason than those outside the game that are more important than poker.

One really good reason to sit out is boredom. If you are getting a run of crap cards sometimes its just a temptation to call because you have the lead and figure "I'll just take a look at the flop". I have won tourneys by using sitting out at some point in the game. It allows me to refocus on the game. As to having an advantage staying in, again what is the difference between folding every hand or just sitting out? I am saying that it is a useful tool in your playing skills and you shouldn't naysay it. I do it when I feel it will give me an advantage.
Sitting out is still being a factor in the game. You have the chip lead. You are still controlling the table because everyone is trying to catch you. You are making the decision as to when to go back in. And in some games I have gone back in with killer hands winning the pot then sitting out again. After doing that a few times you can come back in and steal blinds that way.
Its not for everyone to do. It is just another weapon in your arsenal of poker playing skills. Don't knock it.

No real disagreement here. The original question, I believe, was about those who catch a few hands & win a couple of flops early then sitout until they are close to the money. One, by doing that you are surrendering a lot of your chips, and no doubt your position as one of the leaders & then hoping to get lucky again & finish in the money. Two, by doing this you have no way of getting a feel or read on any of your opponents. What you are talking about is a rational decision by a good player who knows what she is doing. When I see someone, chip leader or close to it, sitout for a short period now & then I think, phone, kids, bathroom, another double scotch (wishful thinking there), or the sort of reasons you stated above. One clue would be, did they get the chip lead with big slick, and pocket A's or Q's holding up or did they call a couple of allins with 89s or A2o and suckout.lol. You, as you say are using the sitout as a tool or weapon, most are hiding behind it because they don't know what they are doing. By the way good to see back, missed you at our nightly games this week. I have been doing an inspired imitation of Santa Claus & showering chips left & right on anyone who happens to be playing. lol. See you at the tables.

bubbasbestbabe said:

One really good reason to sit out is boredom. If you are getting a run of crap cards sometimes its just a temptation to call because you have the lead and figure "I'll just take a look at the flop".

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Rather than taking a step back, you need to address this problem directly in order to maximise your winrate. Patience is difficult, but can be learned, and simply avoiding the issue is not the way to go about this. Also, you should never be bored playing poker. Even if you're not in a hand you should be gleefully absorbing information, not sitting there feeling sorry for yerself cos you haven't seen a face card in 3 orbits or whatever.

bubbasbestbabe said:

I have won tourneys by using sitting out at some point in the game.

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I've won tourneys by not sitting out. So what?

bubbasbestbabe said:

It allows me to refocus on the game.

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You're actually losing focus if you stop paying attention to the table for any length of time, because you're missing out on information. Once again, learn to keep focused as opposed to sidestepping the issue.

bubbasbestbabe said:

Sitting out is still being a factor in the game. You have the chip lead. You are still controlling the table because everyone is trying to catch you.

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Ohhh dear. Consider the following. You have an average stack, and the chip leader is at your table. Would you rather he (a) just sat out, took no interest in any pots and kept surrendering his blinds or (b) kept appplying pressure to the table and using his big stack in a constructive, aggressive manner? Only one of the aforementioned falls under my definition of "controling the table".

I really cannot understand why this has even become debatable. If you consider yourself to be a stronger then average player, then sitting out is quite obviously -EV, as you are missing out on potential opportunities to apply your edge. If you consider yourself to be a worse than average player, you should be moving down in limits and researching more.

think of it this way u sit out u miss out. it is the bad way to do things. u will never get anywhere like that. Bad strategy. No etiquette involded.

my 2 cents

Glo

Dorkus Malorkus said:

I really cannot understand why this has even become debatable. If you consider yourself to be a stronger then average player, then sitting out is quite obviously -EV, as you are missing out on potential opportunities to apply your edge. If you consider yourself to be a worse than average player, you should be moving down in limits and researching more.

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I think the reason its debatable is because you see this as an affront to poker playing not even considering that you can use it at times. As for being either more or less of a better player I think my standings here against alot of members here says where I am in playing skills. Most have taken a lesson here.
My way of playing does not limit myself to playing one way only. If it causes me to advance I will use whatever tools availiable to me to win or at least get in the money.

bubbasbestbabe said:

or at least get in the money.

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It's alot clearer now.

You will become a much better MTT player when you do not just play to "get in the money", but aim to reach the final table.

bubbasbestbabe said:

I think the reason its debatable is because you see this as an affront to poker playing not even considering that you can use it at times. As for being either more or less of a better player I think my standings here against alot of members here says where I am in playing skills. Most have taken a lesson here.

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No, I see it as -EV because you're missing out on potentials to apply your edge and because you're missing information, as I've already said.

If you can't see and/or understand this, you're not as strong a player as you think you are.

As for "an affront to poker playing", umm what? I'm happy playing with sitouts - free blinds are free blinds after all.

i do this in freerolls when i catch a big hand early ill sit out for 45 minutes or half hour and let the bingo players go out and ill come back