Should I or should I not?

Hi all CC-members!

I've been through some serious bad luck at the tables, so much that I lost almost $400 in 2-4 hours.
That means that my bankroll is back to 0.00, but I'm not a quiter so I'm thinking to play my way up, kind of like the Ferguson challenge.

I'd like to get some tips (even though I do have some, but I'd like to start completely over again, so to say).

- Do any of you know any good freerolls to start out with?
- Which BR-management should I use, according to you?

Thanks in advance!

Regards!

if you lost 400 dollars in two hours there is something wrong with your game you need to fix before you continue playing.or it could just be that you didnt follow BRM at all. i think generally twenty buy ins is good and if you get down to 15 move back down

If you lost $400 in 4 hours and now you are broke then you NEED to read
Ferguson's Bank Roll management rules......and FAST.

GL

wow
well obviously u were at the wrong limits to your ability i think [or suffered one bad beat to lose all that ] but br management by ferguson is sound advice .

and lots of sites have freerolls just have to grind them out depending on amount of entrys and $ amounts . not easy . not can be done just takes time .lots of time . hers a few

cake br satty goes off about every 5 hrs for a ticket to 1000$ roll

feltstars has some 200$ rolls and some cheapies 5 and 10$ ones

tilt has some but gl ave.7500 peeps .

but look around the easiest way to start ur roll back up is forum games
but players are better so bring ur a game . especially here no slouches on Cardchats . tc:shakehand

bankroll management def #1
lot of sites are hard to win a buck from freerolls (esp. stars/tilt)
better luck on cake,feltstars,coolhand...and all private forum games,
watch out...they are very good players here
see if you have hand history saved where you lost
see if you can find what cost you (acerag,chasing flushes/str8s..etc)
def play smaller limits (have you been playing long?online long?)
deposit more and play me heads up

Go to Fulltilt and check out the Poker Academy videos. There is one from Chris Ferguson on BRM as well as one on the challenge were he explains what and how he did it.

Well, I already know the Ferguson BR-management, but I can't stick to it. It can run smoothly for me, untill I get greedy and bring my entire stack to the table. That's the problem. I need to get some tips to stick to the BR-management, otherwise it won't ever get better.

I was playing the VIPRB $1000 freeroll earlier. 3 hours, and then I got knocked out with AJ vs QQ. And he even hit a set, so it's only fair.
777 players to the start and I came 59th. So it's not because I'm a bad player, I just can't handle that BR-management.

Do you have any suggestions on how to stick with that and not just get greedy?

Thank for all your help!

Regards!

Here's my 2¢, for what it's worth. (about 2¢)

Of course, bankroll management is important, but it's not going to help you if you're a losing player. (Though it should help you lose slower by forcing you to play the smallest limits available)

You need to start reading everything you can about Hold'em. There are a lot of resources available free online, and more at the bookstore. One of the most enlightening things I've read was about how the immediate results in poker are often divorced from our actions. The random nature of poker means that incorrect actions may win and correct actions may lose in the short term. Our brains don't handle this sort of thing well, and we learn bad habits as a result.*

From looking at a couple of your hands on poker-edge, I'd say you need to stop bluffing and only play your premium hands. ABC poker is your friend at small stakes. Bet your good hands, fold your bad ones, don't pay a lot to see a flop, and don't chase when the pot odds are not in your favor. If someone is looking weak, you can try to nudge them off a pot, but don't shove - that will win little pots and lose big ones. If they are weak, they'll go quietly, otherwise, take your small loss and move on to the next hand.

Finally, I'd say if you can't win at play money, don't even try real money. This is also one way to build a bankroll. If you can build up a few million in play money chips, they can be sold to start a real money bankroll. If you lose that, just go back to play money again and start over. It requires nothing out of your pocket and it can help you learn how to manage a bankroll as well.

Hope this helps.

*paraphrased from "Small Stakes Hold'em - Winning Big With Expert Play", by Miller, Sklansky & Malmuth

Step 1 - learn ABC poker
Step 2 - learn Bankroll Management
Step 3 - combine above two steps to become a winning micros player after a small deposit
Step 4 - learn more advanced concepts as you move through the levels

Easy

To OP:

Read the posts here, read the stickies and the golden archives, and about 1000 other things as well. That will give you a starting view about where you want to go on your journey to learn this game. Many paths to take, it seems you want to play tourneys, so try to find as much info on them, and stick to them alone (maybe STT as well, it depends on an umber of things, hard to make one general statement that covers all the bases). It all depends on what you want to do, and where you want to be in 3-6-12-24 months. Also to comment on the one statement about beating play chips before you beat real money, you CANNOT compare these games. I played loads of play money before I played real money, and NO, they are not anywhere near each other. IMO and based on my experience, but feel free to ask other players what they think on this. But if you want to win in real money games, you have to play them. Maybe compare it to sparing in a martial arts school, and fighting in a tournament. There are similarities, but in practice they are totally different.

BUT: Your post about you know BRM but cant adhere to it is a problem you need to get a grip on, and no poker strategy in the world will help you if you cant discipline yourself.

fletchdad said:

...about beating play chips before you beat real money, you CANNOT compare these games. I played loads of play money before I played real money, and NO, they are not anywhere near each other. IMO and based on my experience, but feel free to ask other players what they think on this. But if you want to win in real money games, you have to play them. Maybe compare it to sparing in a martial arts school, and fighting in a tournament. There are similarities, but in practice they are totally different.

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Right, I didn't say anything about play money teaching you good poker. It's obviously a sea of donkeys, but to use your analogy, if you're getting your butt kicked in the dojang, then entering a tournament is going to be a very painful way to learn. Do you feel that you learned nothing by spending all that time at the play money tables? Were you losing at play money when you decided to switch to real money? I don't know what OP's skill level is, but spewing $400 in a few hours indicates that he has some serious learning to do before he should consider depositing more cash if he cares about his money. (Which I assume he does or he wouldn't have started this thread.)

Obviously bankroll management is a key issue for him, probably combined with a tilting problem. If he can weather the aggravation and variance one sees when playing with donkeys, while learning the patience and self control it takes to actually beat them and build a play money bankroll instead of blowing it all, then I think he'll have a solid foundation for improving his skill at higher levels. Also, the skill level does improve a bit as you move up to the highest play money levels. Still not the same as real money, but I don't think it would be a wasted effort. I spent about 8 months using play money when I first started, and when I moved to real money I only made one $25 deposit. (Though I did supplement that a couple of times early on by selling my play money.) I'm just advising this because it worked for me, OP needs to figure out what will work for him.

x2486 said:

Right, I didn't say anything about play money teaching you good poker. It's obviously a sea of donkeys, but to use your analogy, if you're getting your butt kicked in the dojang, then entering a tournament is going to be a very painful way to learn. Do you feel that you learned nothing by spending all that time at the play money tables? Were you losing at play money when you decided to switch to real money? I don't know what OP's skill level is, but spewing $400 in a few hours indicates that he has some serious learning to do before he should consider depositing more cash if he cares about his money. (Which I assume he does or he wouldn't have started this thread.)

Obviously bankroll management is a key issue for him, probably combined with a tilting problem. If he can weather the aggravation and variance one sees when playing with donkeys, while learning the patience and self control it takes to actually beat them and build a play money bankroll instead of blowing it all, then I think he'll have a solid foundation for improving his skill at higher levels. Also, the skill level does improve a bit as you move up to the highest play money levels. Still not the same as real money, but I don't think it would be a wasted effort. I spent about 8 months using play money when I first started, and when I moved to real money I only made one $25 deposit. (Though I did supplement that a couple of times early on by selling my play money.) I'm just advising this because it worked for me, OP needs to figure out what will work for him.

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Fair enough. I see what you are saying. I was winning with play chips when I switched, and I lost real money real fast. Using any strategy that works at the play money table - super aggressive, raising and re-raising with marginal hands, calling an all in with 2 callers already with JJ etc. - wont fly at the real money tables, is what I was trying to say. I dont feel like I learned nothing at the play money tables, I learned how to be aggressive, but I did not learn how to do stuff like when and how to 3-bet, getting reads based on bet sizing, playing position especially based on effective stacks and so on. IMO play money is good to get a basic grasp on basic game principles, but thats it. But I agree that for a beginner it has its learning value, to a certain extent.

you either learned your lesson this last time losing your bankroll in one session or you didn't no one else can tell you how to have self-control.

You just had some tough luck there buddy. Forget the freerolls, deposit, figure about a thousand bucks cause you wanna try and get back what you lost, and you wanna do that in the 1st hour.
PS. If you never deposited b4, mention me, I want that refer a friend bonus, for my excellent advice, thanks !

PlayerPlayerAA said:

You just had some tough luck there buddy. Forget the freerolls, deposit, figure about a thousand bucks cause you wanna try and get back what you lost, and you wanna do that in the 1st hour.
PS. If you never deposited b4, mention me, I want that refer a friend bonus, for my excellent advice, thanks !

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Please say this post isn't serious

Pascal LeFiscal said:

Please say this post isn't serious

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I Think I can safely say its not...... I had to wipe my monitor off, the sarcasm was dripping so much........

fletchdad said:

I Think I can safely say its not...... I had to wipe my monitor off, the sarcasm was dripping so much........

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My sarcasm detector is wonky today

BR is EXTREMELY important
otherwise you will keep going bust
no matter how good (or bad) you are
variance exists in all poker games
if you are playing outside your BR
1 hand can bust you
in my case i started with nothing on full tilt
and now have $89.68 in cash
4 tickets to the sunday freeroll
and a step 3 ticket ($26)
this is from freerolls and micro sng and 1c/2c ring games
i will never be a millionare (ya never know)
but
the idea is to learn how to WIN
you only move up when your BR
allows you to
otherwise you are just gambling
i NEVER get tempted to play above my BR
the fun is the LEARNING and NOT the money
you need to disipline yourself and learn from experience
if you dont follow BR management
you can never be a consistant winner
grinding takes a lot ot time
but that is part of the fun of learning
good luck

Niantic said:

Well, I already know the Ferguson BR-management, but I can't stick to it. It can run smoothly for me, untill I get greedy and bring my entire stack to the table. That's the problem. I need to get some tips to stick to the BR-management, otherwise it won't ever get better.

I was playing the VIPRB $1000 freeroll earlier. 3 hours, and then I got knocked out with AJ vs QQ. And he even hit a set, so it's only fair.
777 players to the start and I came 59th. So it's not because I'm a bad player, I just can't handle that BR-management.

Do you have any suggestions on how to stick with that and not just get greedy?

Thank for all your help!

Regards!

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Ha you're Istad! Good to see you. I'm jonathan the guy you added on facebook the other day. Glad you're a member here.