Should I play smaller ball poker in situations like these?

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OneMoreBust

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$5 +.50 MTT

I had about 17k chips with blinds at 100/200, under the gun had about 2k less chips.


I was BB, 810 spades
Under the gun calls BB and I check.

Flop comes: 6h 7c 9d

I bet 3x BB, he calls.

Turn comes 9s. I bet 3xBB and he re-raised to 9BB.

I stopped and looked at the board, I had believed he had hit solidly on the flop, but there was no way Id give him credit for 2 pair... a smooth call with 2 pair on the flop, sure, but a big re-raise once he hit the full house?

At this point I pushed back in over top of him and he calls. I have him beat with a straight vs his A9 , trips with ace kicker.

River pairs the board with a 7 and he doubles up to become chip leader.


I read him right and feel I played it right, when looking at it just as a single hand, but when I consider the fact I was like 10th/80th and suddenly all but dropped out of the tournament, it makes me wonder if I could have played this a little differently.

With ace kicker and the trips, and knowing he was aggressive with any good hand, I could have played it slower, and seen the river before i committed myself... of course that sounds like scared poker to me and i do not like to even think about playing that way, but in isolated situations it could have worked. dunno.
 
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crow27

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He went all in on the turn and you called. He caught a 9 outer. Tough break for you. I would have played exactly the same way, probably slower, but that's me.
You want him to push with that flop. He just got lucky. I've also been on the wrong side of that too many times to count. You just have to move on, nothing else to do.
 
wayschaff

wayschaff

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actually i think its 10 outs. three 6s three 7s three aces and the remaining 9. but either way it is thaat fact that he got lucky to hit it.
 
jdeliverer

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Probably not. It's important to double up if, like most tournaments, the top few places get a huge fraction of the money. However if the field is pretty deep stacked right now and you feel you can truly outplay these opponents, go ahead and play smallball. Just know that everyone goes all in sometimes, and this may be your best shot.
 
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turby

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Just really unlucky. he had like.. 8% of your chips before going into that hand.. (i would have pushed..throw all caution to the wind..regardless my read) but good read on your part.
 
jordanbillie

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No, you really can't play that hand any differently because you are playing to WIN the tournament. Think about it if you would have won that hand. You would be in great shape to make the FT and have a shot at winning the MTT. Tought beat, these are the hands you need to hold when going deep in tourneys.
 
TPC

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Don't think about your bet size in terms of BB's after the flop. You want to bet keeping the size of the pot in mind. So your 3x bb bet on the flop was, assuming UTG limped and you checked which is what I think you meant, a good size. Assuming there were antes at this stage you bet probably like 75% of the pot. Which is standard and good, cause you want a caller at this point.

Now on the turn, the board paired. That's a little bit of a scare card for you, you led out on the flop and he called, so you have to think he has at least a pair at this point. You are way ahead at this point or way behind. So I would check here, if he had top pair he now has trips, if he limped UTG with something weird like 97 or 96 suited he could have a full house or if he had 66 or 77 he also has a FH or 99 for quads. I would think the pp's are more likely than the suited connectors. He could have slow played a big PP too, like AA or KK. So again, you are way ahead or way behind. So checking here with the intention of calling a pot size bet would be the play I would make. If he has the FH he will probably bet for value, which we will call to see the river. If he has an over pair like AA, the 9 on the turn might have scared him, becasue we did lead out on the flop, so he will probably check. If he had top pair, he now has trips and will probably bet for value, cause your straight draw is hidden here. And due to the board we know he's not on a flush draw.

So lets say he bets the turn, and we call. River card is another crappy card for us. The board is paired twice. Now if he had top pair he has a full house, and if he had 66 he has a FH, but the lowest possible FH. Or he could have quad sevens. So there is pretty much no way you can bet this river, you have to check here. Now if he moves all in there is no way we can call here, we have to fold. An all in bet here would look like he is bluffing, but that's all we are beating is a bluff. We still have a healthy stack and plenty of time for better spots, so if he wants to bluff us here, we have to let him have it.

At these limits players don't really know what bet sizing is. They don't really know how to suck every chip out of their opponent for value. So a lot of the times an all in bet on the river pretty much means they have the nuts. A pot size bet could mean I have an over PP, but the board scares me a little so I'll bet the pot. This could also be a value bet. So you are getting two to one to call, you need to think about the opponent and would he bet the pot there as a bluff, it's cheap enough to look him up, but it also smells fishy. So I'm still folding most of the time, unless I have a really good read on this player.

If he is a really good player he will price you into call, giving you three to one or four to one to call. This is almost two good to pass up, which is usually a red flag that it's a value bet. However, at these limits not a lot of the players are really thinking on that level. I will usually make the call with pot odds of three to one at these limits and almost always make the call with four to one pot odds. This is probably a leak in my game, but again most of the players at this level aren't thinking about pot odds and value betting the river. I'm surprised when i make that call, how often I win the hand. I need to look at some data to see if I'm winning overall making that call. I'm just not sure how to look at that in PT3. If I do I will post some numbers.

So I kinda rambled on here, but I hope that makes sense to you on why I would play it that way. search CC for way ahead way behind, there are some good articles on it. By playing the hand this way you still lose in this situation, but you still have most of your stack left.
 
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CashinJen

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BAD BEAt

just a bad beat dude. played it perfectly i would have pushed on the flop just to maybe run him off. He still may have called with you checking in and him with top pair top kicker. So ya you played it well
 
Zorba

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Trigga makes some very good points here, and like he said doing it his way you lose but still have most of your chips, I on the other hand would have probably would have done the same as CashinJen, shove before he makes his hand, let him know you have the straight, at that point he is hoping for the set.
 
TPC

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just a bad beat dude. played it perfectly i would have pushed on the flop just to maybe run him off. He still may have called with you checking in and him with top pair top kicker. So ya you played it well


Shoving the flop is the worst play possible!!! We want chips for our made hands, we want as many chips we can get!!! If we shove the flop, what are the chances he calls?? Well in this situation with TPTK he might call depending on his reads. Even if he does call, we still lose the hand and our stack in this situation.

What if he had AK?? if we shove the flop, he's probably going to fold, so we miss a bet from him. We want to give him a chance to improve his hand a little. Say an A came on the turn, this is a chance to get quite a few chips out of him. You were just unlucky for him to make a FH there on the river.
 
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