Should This Hand Be Mucked?

#1 6th September 2017, 12:31 AM

I play for a pub league and there's 4 people left on the final table, I raised pre with KQ of Diamonds, two others call. The flop comes Jack high with two diamonds, I bet and one calls. Turn comes 9 of diamonds, I bet just short of the other guys stack, he says all in and I call. I show him my flush and he says something like "it's yours - I'm beaten - I can't win" puts his cards over the line face down and brings his hands back. So I think I've won and the dealer deals out the river anyway and it's a 9. He then says "unless I hit one of them!" Takes his cards from behind the line facedown and turns over J9. I thought I'd won this hand but he took the chips. Thoughts please?

#2 6th September 2017, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jonnysmithh

I play for a pub league and there's 4 people left on the final table, I raised pre with KQ of Diamonds, two others call. The flop comes Jack high with two diamonds, I bet and one calls. Turn comes 9 of diamonds, I bet just short of the other guys stack, he says all in and I call. I show him my flush and he says something like "it's yours - I'm beaten - I can't win" puts his cards over the line face down and brings his hands back. So I think I've won and the dealer deals out the river anyway and it's a 9. He then says "unless I hit one of them!" Takes his cards from behind the line facedown and turns over J9. I thought I'd won this hand but he took the chips. Thoughts please?

Well if he's all in, his hand isn't officially mucked until the river is dealt(unless he actually throws his hand into the muck). Although you mentioned this was a pub league, rules aren't as strict as casinos are, so idk.

If he didn't fully throw his hand away, yes he could still pick up his hand and turn it over, after announcing that you won. His verbal announcement means nothing if he exposes the wining hand.

#3 6th September 2017, 1:00 AM

It it hit the muck pile, it's mucked, if not its live in my opinion

#4 6th September 2017, 1:05 AM

No matter where you play his hand is live . face down doesn't mean anything . Verbal you win means nothing so unless he flings his cards on the muck pile they are live

#5 6th September 2017, 1:05 AM

in all in hands situation all player should be show their hands

#6 6th September 2017, 1:19 AM

Yeah. His money's in the middle (all of it). The deal hasn't been completed. The pot is his. I don't really see it any other way.

#7 6th September 2017, 1:21 AM

He should win the pot but was out of line with his saying he can't win and pushing his hand forward - really the dealer could have mucked his hand after his actions/statement.

Unfortunately for you that didn't happen and in the situation that played out his hand should still be live and the pot should be his after that river card.

Sounds like you did everything right and took a bad beat, try not to fixate on the results or what you opponent did. Good luck to you!

#8 6th September 2017, 1:47 AM

I dealt for a while in Vegas. Unfortunately his hand is live still. It was retrievable. If it was lost in the muck pile that would be a different story. I would give him a warning as well as the floor to let the player know to be careful.

When he threw his cards in the dealer should have grabbed them and muck em. Unfortunely that didn't happen.

The real deal is how does that 9d come 😕

Gl out there🤠

#9 6th September 2017, 3:24 AM

He's all in on the turn so he can't muck his hand. The dealer should have tabled it before dealing the river but regardless his hand is still live.

#10 6th September 2017, 9:00 AM

this is a very interesting situation. and a lot of good comments

#11 7th September 2017, 12:06 AM

If the play moves the cards forward, face down and unprotectedly (especially when making the statement he did), the dealer should have collected the cards as that should constitute him mucking his hand. The dealer did not do that.

Now as this is a pub league, that isn't very surprising, but definitely a faux pas.

#12 11th September 2017, 2:04 AM

Originally Posted by microse

If the play moves the cards forward, face down and unprotectedly (especially when making the statement he did), the dealer should have collected the cards as that should constitute him mucking his hand. The dealer did not do that.

If there was still live action then yes, sure, that would constitute a fold and the dealer should muck the hand. This was an all-in situation though and the player couldn't fold.

In fact, allowing a player to muck their hand in a tournament spot like this leaves the door open for angle shooting / soft play / collusion, so not mucking the hand even if the player wants to is almost certainly the correct thing to do.

#13 16th September 2017, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by OzExorcist

If there was still live action then yes, sure, that would constitute a fold and the dealer should muck the hand. This was an all-in situation though and the player couldn't fold.

In fact, allowing a player to muck their hand in a tournament spot like this leaves the door open for angle shooting / soft play / collusion, so not mucking the hand even if the player wants to is almost certainly the correct thing to do.

As always Oz hits a HR (as well as a few others).

It is a rule that you can NOT muck your hand in this situation. Tell the dealer this is the rule so next time its not an issue, and yes, the dealer should have turned the hand over before putting out the river.

#14 17th September 2017, 5:58 PM

I think it's showdown so it's not folded but at least here in Peru varies according to each poker room

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Should This Hand Be Mucked?

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