WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Here you go Set Mining
He explains the concept well but I disagree with his numbers based on other reading. I'll call the preflop raiser if I can expect to get 12 times the amount I call preflop when I hit.
He explains the concept well but I disagree with his numbers based on other reading. I'll call the preflop raiser if I can expect to get 12 times the amount I call preflop when I hit.
Chris_TC
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Be careful with that. I've had several situations now where I was soo sure they'd stack off but didn't.
When you get 3-bet by a tight player, call and flop a set it should mean you'll win a stack. But the last two times this happened to me, my opponent just check-folded (!) the flop.
Maybe I was up against AK both times, but the fact that they didn't even c-bet was pretty ridiculous.
B
Bentheman87
Visionary
Silver Level
"12:1 is what I am using now as a baseline. I'll go 10:1 if I KNOW they will stack off."
Wait, why 12:1 I thought the odds of flopping a set were like 8:1 or 9:1. I think if you're getting even 5:1 or 6:1 it's a good idea to call because of the great implied odds. If you flop a small set on a board that has a K or Q or Ace it's very unlikely the flop doesn't hit someone else hard.
Wait, why 12:1 I thought the odds of flopping a set were like 8:1 or 9:1. I think if you're getting even 5:1 or 6:1 it's a good idea to call because of the great implied odds. If you flop a small set on a board that has a K or Q or Ace it's very unlikely the flop doesn't hit someone else hard.
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Bentheman87
Visionary
Silver Level
I read a bit through that thread you posted alien, I see what they are saying kinda. Changing the odds you need to call preflop because of the possibility of being reraised preflop, flopping a set and still losing, and not getting paid off when you do get a set. But 8-1 odds against flopping a set don't take implied odds into account so it would make sense to call with worse odds than 8-1. So the possibility of being reraised preflop or flopping trips and still losing means we have to be getting better than 8-1, but implied odds means you can call with odds worse than 8-1 and the possibility of winning the pot without flopping trips (they could have two high cards where we're actually a small favorite preflop) means we can be getting worse odds than 8-1. So it makes sense we can call with odds a little worse than 8-1 doesn't it?
Chris_TC
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
You're confusing something there. The 12:1 rule is not about the pot odds, it's about the implied odds.
If somebody raises to $5 at 100NL, then his stack should be at least $60 big (i.e. 12:1 implied odds) for you to call with a small pair. Note how your pot odds in this example are only 1.3:1 (blinds = $1.50 + $5 raise = $6.50 / $5 = 1.3)
aliengenius
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
^^these guys covered it-- 8:1/12:1 IS talking about the implied odds, not the current pot odds. As to winning without flopping a set-- that would be nice, but I doubt your opponent is going to accommodate by checking the hand down, and you will certainly lose money long term by calling bets on boards with several broadway overcards.
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Bentheman87
Visionary
Silver Level
With those medium pairs I don't think you even need implied odds to call, since it's easy for a bunch of undercards to come on the flop or only one overcard. Postflop with 22 33 or 44 it's almost always gonna come all overcards so you can't really continue in the hand unless you flop a set, but with the medium pairs like 99 you can usually still continue in the hand even if you don't flop a set.