Royal?.....Got Flushed!

D

DEVILRAISE

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:confused: Did I do the right thing here?:confused: I tried to get a screen shot but could'nt. all I wanted to do was make it to the money (36th place) this hand happened 2 spots from the money. was it worth the risk of missing out on the money to call? normally I would never throw this away.
APOKERPRO4U: (Ah Th) :eek:

Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (400/800) - 2008/08/15 - 21:18:41 (ET)
Table '102375946 27' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: tlo12 (10388 in chips)
Seat 2: jakeedizzie (5109 in chips)
Seat 3: jeanmen (6980 in chips)
Seat 4: UWANAFOLD420 (13830 in chips)
Seat 5: CoorsLT (6470 in chips)
Seat 6: redfoxx777 (11340 in chips)
Seat 7: pokerdiva78 (24708 in chips)
Seat 8: fresco69 (15445 in chips)
Seat 9: APOKERPRO4U (2465 in chips)
tlo12: posts the ante 75
jakeedizzie: posts the ante 75
jeanmen: posts the ante 75
UWANAFOLD420: posts the ante 75
CoorsLT: posts the ante 75
redfoxx777: posts the ante 75
pokerdiva78: posts the ante 75
fresco69: posts the ante 75
APOKERPRO4U: posts the ante 75
pokerdiva78: posts small blind 400
fresco69: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to APOKERPRO4U [Th Ah]
APOKERPRO4U: folds
tlo12: folds
jakeedizzie: calls 800
jeanmen: folds
UWANAFOLD420: folds
CoorsLT: folds
redfoxx777: raises 10465 to 11265 and is all-in
pokerdiva78: folds
fresco69: folds
jakeedizzie: calls 4234 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (6231) returned to redfoxx777
*** FLOP *** [Jh 3d Qh]:confused:
*** TURN *** [Jh 3d Qh] [Kh]:eek:
*** RIVER *** [Jh 3d Qh Kh] [3s]:mad:
 
norbs286

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OMG! I was so sorry to read this...

However, considering the situation (bubble, UTG and lowest chip stack) I think you have done the right thing!

Did you make it??
 
fcumred

fcumred

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I would seriously have slit my wrists,..

That is just so unlucky.

Sometimes things like this happen..
 
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rockpoker

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Being in bubble it is very difficult to play this hand, I also was taking the decision that you took. They are 9 players and you are UTG, A in flop or flush after the riwer it is slightly very difficult; that I can say of a royal flush!!!.
You did well in not playing this hand; I had in a tournamennt an equal situation and did fold.
 
Bigsmak

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Correct Fold

Shame about the board though...

In the long run it is the right move.
 
D

DEVILRAISE

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thank you I felt that getting into the money was the important issue also. and yes haha I did make it actually. It was really hard to lay those down....bigtime! I got to the money so im happy about it. turned 10 into 30....cents! muhahahaha!
 
PokerVic

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I've folded a straight flush preflop before, but never a royal. Sometimes I still cringe when a flop comes out that would have paid me off big time had I stayed in, but I've learned that it doesn't matter what happens in the hand after I fold. A good decision then is still a good decision after the board plays out, no matter what you would have hit.
 
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ph_il

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Bad fold, IMO*.

You're sitting on ~3BBs and an M of 1.3-this is the type of hand Im shoving with and hoping to win it. The pot is already at 1875 and if you win that, you increase your stack by over 75%. If you fold, you're paying over 50% of your stack in just blinds and antes.

*If your goal is just to make the money, then its a good fold. Continue to fold great opportunities like these (low M/low BBs) when you're on or near the bubble and you'll just continue to just make the money. Keep in mind that just because you're at/near the bubble doesn't guarantee you're going to make the money and if you're (most likely) going to be cutting an already short stack in half with blinds alone, its just going to make things even more difficult. However, if a win is the goal, then this is a clear and easy shove.
 
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D

DEVILRAISE

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??? HAHA!..OMG! your totally right philth! I should have risked getting ITM on a "pretty hand" cause why?..."Hoping to win?" hahaha!....not! Sorry im a card player not a gambler, good luck with that BR.
 
fcumred

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Bad fold, IMO*.

You're sitting on ~3BBs and an M of 1.3-this is the type of hand Im shoving with and hoping to win it. The pot is already at 1875 and if you win that, you increase your stack by over 75%. If you fold, you're paying over 50% of your stack in just blinds and antes.

*If your goal is just to make the money, then its a good fold. Continue to fold great opportunities like these (low M/low BBs) when you're on or near the bubble and you'll just continue to just make the money. Keep in mind that just because you're at/near the bubble doesn't guarantee you're going to make the money and if you're (most likely) going to be cutting an already short stack in half with blinds alone, its just going to make things even more difficult. However, if a win is the goal, then this is a clear and easy shove.


Did you miss this bit ?

devilraise said:
all I wanted to do was make it to the money
 
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ph_il

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Did you miss this bit ?
No, I didn't because if you noticed in my post with the little * I clearly stated that if his goal was to just make the money, then the fold was fine.

DevilRaise: I am not berating your play or anything like that, so don't take it the wrong way. I simply gave my opinion that it was a bad fold if you're looking at it from a person who wants to win view point. It comes down to what you're hoping to accomplish.

A) You want to make the money-fold and you're almost guaranteed a spot at making it ITM.

B) You want to win it-You have to shove here and take the chance of doubling up or even better, because folding isn't going to help you accomplish this. You have to take chances like these if you want to survive and make it further in the money. In fact, you should be taking these chances way before your stack gets this low.

To emphasize on what im trying to say: You're sitting on a stack of with an M of just a little over 1. What this means is that it'll cost the blinds and antes about 1.5 full orbit before they eat away your stack. And this is only at the current blind/ante levels, we're not taking into consideration of the blinds and antes raising, but we'll ignore that for now. Not to mention that you are the small/big blind in the next too hands. We'll assume, since you want to fold into the money, that you dont play these hands. So, after the blinds pass, You'll have a stack of 1115. You don't even enough to pay for the blinds and thats without the antes coming into play. With this stack, you are not going to accomplish a whole lot unless you get really lucky and double up quite a few times.

However, if your goal is to just make the money each time, then plays like these are perfectly fine. The problem is, majority of the time and in similar situations like this, thats all you're going to accomplish. If you're goal is to make it further up the money ladder, a final table, or even win it-folding opportunities like this is going to make it very unlikely that will happen.

You mention that you're a poker player and not a gambler, but this is some pretty basic poker playing knowledge. And poker is a gamble in its self and sometimes you have to go for it. Every time you raise, call a bet, or push all in-you're taking a gamble, right? There is nothing wrong with taking a chance, thats how the game is. Sometimes you have to take chances in order to win.

So, again, Im not berating your play. Im not here to talk down on anyones play because I dont believe I am better than anyone. Im simply giving my constructive criticism and my opinions. You accomplished what you were looking for and congrats on that-you made the money. Im just giving you a little insight so maybe you can think things differently. Making the money is fun and all, but try aiming for the bigger prizes. And sometimes in order to do that, you're going to have to take a few gambles here and there.
 
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ysmisc

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I have been blinded so many times in this case of just wanting to get the money that I would still go on statistics - And even if the goal was "just the money" I would still push all in in this case and hope for the math to give me the money not just luck.
But on the other hand I understand your fold, it all depends on the game and the players on board and also how close the other people are to lose all of their money.
 
belladonna05

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Bad fold, IMO*.

You're sitting on ~3BBs and an M of 1.3-this is the type of hand Im shoving with and hoping to win it. The pot is already at 1875 and if you win that, you increase your stack by over 75%. If you fold, you're paying over 50% of your stack in just blinds and antes.

*If your goal is just to make the money, then its a good fold. Continue to fold great opportunities like these (low M/low BBs) when you're on or near the bubble and you'll just continue to just make the money. Keep in mind that just because you're at/near the bubble doesn't guarantee you're going to make the money and if you're (most likely) going to be cutting an already short stack in half with blinds alone, its just going to make things even more difficult. However, if a win is the goal, then this is a clear and easy shove.

??? HAHA!..OMG! your totally right philth! I should have risked getting ITM on a "pretty hand" cause why?..."Hoping to win?" hahaha!....not! Sorry im a card player not a gambler, good luck with that BR.
Oh yes phils advice is terrible.....I really look forward to playing a such an astute poker player like you.
 
belladonna05

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Why am I getting picked on for giving my opinion on the hand. So many people agree that it was a correct fold and I just happen to think differently. Is that so bad?

There are so many things to consider within the hand, not just you have A10s UTG and you're near the money.

Maybe Im just putting to much thought into this?
Hey phil, I just belive in giving my equines a good rub down before stalling them, thats all. :p
 
Jack Daniels

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:confused: Did I do the right thing here?
I think you need to chill with the retalliation a little. You posted the question; you should expect dissenting opinions (irrespective of "just trying to make the money"). Of all people, Philthy is the last one on this forum that would attack/flame you.

Truth be told, had you posted this in the correct forum (Brags, Bad Beats, and Vents) without the question inviting input, none of this would have really be said. Instead you'd have gotten what you were obviously seeking which was a bunch of "wow that's tough" and "yeah, I agree" replies instead.
 
ajrobin

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Proper cash > Mini cash. I would have shoved with just about ATC long ago, A10 is definetly a shoving hand this low. However if all you want to do is mini-cash click auto-fold and go make a sandwhich, who know you might get luckly and two other people get knocked out.
 
blankoblanco

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push it because you have only 3 BBs and in 2 hands once the blinds have gone through you, you'll have zero fold equity at all. even if you by some stroke of luck double up at that point, it will only put you right back where you started, crippled and needing to double up again

more than likely, you played too weakly to get yourself in this spot to begin with. you probably missed tons of good opportunities to push
 
l Love Beer

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Bad fold, IMO*.

You're sitting on ~3BBs and an M of 1.3-this is the type of hand Im shoving with and hoping to win it. The pot is already at 1875 and if you win that, you increase your stack by over 75%. If you fold, you're paying over 50% of your stack in just blinds and antes.

*If your goal is just to make the money, then its a good fold. Continue to fold great opportunities like these (low M/low BBs) when you're on or near the bubble and you'll just continue to just make the money. Keep in mind that just because you're at/near the bubble doesn't guarantee you're going to make the money and if you're (most likely) going to be cutting an already short stack in half with blinds alone, its just going to make things even more difficult. However, if a win is the goal, then this is a clear and easy shove.

Aggreed... next hand you'll have ~1/3 of you stack in the pot blind. If you're sure that you next hand will be better that ATs then by all means fold, but if it were me, my money would be going in here... simply because if it doesn't it absolutely has to when your in the bb imo, and the chances of seeing a better hand next hand is very small.

Also you have 19 hands until you blinded out completely, and with only 38 players remaining i'm sure all of the other low stacks are watching your table waiting for you to bust or blind out before they do. So it's not even a guarantee that you'll coast to the money being the short stack of the tournament.

In the past i've found myself in similar situations, and after making MANY minimal cashes and leaving the game frustrated w/ my 2-3 hrs of play being rewarded with a minimal cash... Just tonight when playing the daily doubles i was on the bubble in both (ab 30 from the money in each). Avg. stack in B, and 1/3 average in the A (5 BB's). I told myself i could cash in both by folding, but i'd have no fold equity in the A after sitting for a few rounds. Weighed the options in my head Option 1. Fold my way to the money in the A ($13 minimal cash+$16 minimal cash in B+~$25 for a double cash bonus.) Or Option 2 (make a stand and build a decent stack in the A before the bubble burst and try going deep in both, as i was playing rather well.)

I went with #2 giving up the guaranteed ~$55 for a chance for going deep in both and recieving the best double finish bonus (good for ~700) or a FT or two. Busted 25 from money in A and cashed for 18 (i think) in the B.

Sure i was a little frustrated at first but i've noticed that i tend to play like a pussy around the bubble and have definately given up on some oppertunities to go deep. So i too vote for the shove and prey.

Edit: and another thing.... You said that you'd normally never throw this hand away UTG, but i believe that if there is any time to get involved w/ AT UTG it is a time like this.
 
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Holy Smokes, this bites bigtime.. But you did the sensible thing.
I rarely look at the hand when I folded mine. In a rare occasion I look back at the history, but my heart's too fragile to experience something like this.
 
Zorba

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DEVILRAISE said:
??? HAHA!..OMG! your totally right philth! I should have risked getting ITM on a "pretty hand" cause why?..."Hoping to win?" hahaha!....not! Sorry im a card player not a gambler, good luck with that BR.

As you are a card player and not a gambler you should have shoved as a card player would have.
Like JD said, you need to chill, if your not going to like the answer dont ask the question.
 
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??? HAHA!..OMG! your totally right philth! I should have risked getting ITM on a "pretty hand" cause why?..."Hoping to win?" hahaha!....not! Sorry im a card player not a gambler, good luck with that BR.

hahahah this is the dumbest thing i heard anyone say regarding poker.. ROFL

I am a card player not a gambler yet you play POKER....

POKER is a gamble anyway you see it, you could have AA and get beat by 10-2 ofsuit. Anytime you play a hand in POKER you are gambling.


Personally i think it was a very bad play considering the amount of chips that you had. Even if you got AA and shoved it all in there is still a chance that couple of people would call you and you would lose to two pair or better. Even if you are waiting for money you can only last 1.5 around the table which could possibly not be enough time and as you can see by waiting you are taking a GAMBLE. When i play i usually play to win not to make chump change or get my money back... For example

Me and my friends have 20$ tournament every other Saturday and 3rd place gets their money back (usually we have 18-25 people play). Why in the world would i be shooting for 3rd place?? I shoot for 1st place which gets 70% of the pot and last time i won ... I got $250 on my 20$ buy in

In our live tournament it was up to 3 people, i got dealt A A and another guy got dealt 2 9 same suite. Blinds were 800-1600 , i raised to 3200 and he was big blind. He folded and I said good fold and showed aces, he showed me 2 9 same suite than asked if we can run it. We ran it and 3 diamonds came on the flop, and yes this is real life poker not online. So in a sense me raising with AA is a gamble even though i have a better hand. ANY HAND YOU PLAY IN POKER IS A GAMBLE THATS WHY THEY CALL IT GAMBLING.
 
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032483

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That once happened to me. Except a played and flopped it. But damn near the button like that you made the right move.
 
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