are rng correct

i play on pkr i have looked at their rng statement and was wondering if all sites and rng's forget to burn a card. i was also wondering what difference this would make to odds as after the turn for example there would be two less cards in the deck.does anyone have an opinion on this. should they burn cards to keep up with the rules of play or as they would say is there no need as nobody could see the card anyway.

I don't know of any site that burns a card. A burn card is a preventative measure to minimize certain aspects of live deck cheating that can not be duplicated online.

I am not a mathematician, so don't know what the 'odds' might be with a +/- burn card count. I don't really think it changes anything.

There are other issues larger than a burn card, imo. pokerstars says they set the entire deck before the first card is dealt, just like a live deck. They do not burn a card during any of the deal processes. All the other sites use a constant shuffle from the first card dealt.

I prefer Stars method since it mimmicks live play more accurately. The other sites using a constant shuffle are like sitting at a live table where the dealer shuffles the cards constantly during a hand. In Holdem, think of it as a dealer shuffling the deck preflop, and continually shuffling the remaining cards during each betting round. It's a matter of the dealer taking YOUR next card from anywhere in the remaining deck he chooses ...

Would make zero difference whatsoever. Just another unknown card whether its burnt or not, still part of the 'deck' as it would be no more likely to be burnt than any other card

so why arnt rng's then standardised?

Nick! Nick! Nick!

Are you sure about the constant shuffling thing-a-ma-giggy? So whatever card comes out on FT is complete dependent on when you hit the button. Wait one or two milli-seconds and a completely different card comes out. That's the way the slot machines and Keno machines work. The RNG chip is continually shuffling the possiblities even when not in play. This is like playing the Full Tilt slot machine.

Where as on PS the deck is pre-set so it doesn't matter when you hit the button.

Wow. Never knew that.

So if the cards are in constant shuffle on FT the odds of any one unknown card coming up should remain the same. As for changeing the odds of your card hitting wheter a card is burned inbetween rounds makes no difference to the percentage you are betting on. You are only figuring the number of cards that can help you time the number of card to still be dealt to you or in the community pile. As long as you can not identify that card in your hand or as someone elses up card the odds remain the same no matter where that card is.

could this then favour a fast / slow player even though random or if the key is hit at precisly the same time or is this just stupid talk?

LizzyJ said:

Nick! Nick! Nick!

Are you sure about the constant shuffling thing-a-ma-giggy? So whatever card comes out on FT is complete dependent on when you hit the button. Wait one or two milli-seconds and a completely different card comes out. That's the way the slot machines and Keno machines work. The RNG chip is continually shuffling the possiblities even when not in play. This is like playing the Full Tilt slot machine.

Where as on PS the deck is pre-set so it doesn't matter when you hit the button.

Wow. Never knew that.

Click to expand...

Here is an e-mail I received from FT's tech department when I was doing some research mid-year 2008...:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting full tilt poker Support.

First off, please allow me to congratulate you on your recent
accomplishments in both the Stud games as well as placing in numerous
freerolls. I hope you continue your consistent winning record.

Please allow me to say that your inquiry is completely valid and I would
be more than happy to address your inquiry. You are completely correct
in the way our software decides the cards to come. In addition to
requesting cards on demand, our cards are in constant shuffle. That
being said, numbers are not chosen at all until betting is complete. In
combination, it ensures that no one can ever determine the cards to come
until the cards are dealt. That being said, I understand that you may
feel this unconventional method of dealing may take getting used to.
The positive aspect of this is that you will never feel bad folding a
hand and seeing what would have been a monstrous flop. Truth is, if you
didn't fold, odds are you won't have the same flop.

Finally, I can assure you that despite this method of dealing, the odds
of cards to come are exactly the same. The following is a post on RGP,
one of the largest newsgroups on the Internet.

http://tinyurl.com/a4y24

Please read Perry Friedman's explanation of our RNG; it is very
revealing about how online shufflers work.

If you require more information regarding this issue, please feel free
to write back to us and we would be more than happy to address your
concerns.

If there's anything else we can help you with, please feel free to ask.
Best of luck at the tables!

Regards,

Sunny
Poker Specialist
Full Tilt Poker Support

baghead said:

could this then favour a fast / slow player even though random or if the key is hit at precisly the same time or is this just stupid talk?

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There is no 'favour' one way or the other. Speed or delay in a button click does not give a + or - ev to the next card/s to be dealt, just assures that it/they will be 'different'.

the only difference it would make in counting outs u would /48 instead of /46. If there are no burn cards its a more accurate math statement

This shuffling method would give unfair advantage to those with telekinetic powers over those with ESP.

FTPHeHaTeMe said:

the only difference it would make in counting outs u would /48 instead of /46. If there are no burn cards its a more accurate math statement

Click to expand...

More accurate? Statistically speaking, you'd never subtract burn cards from your out calculations anyway. ANY card that you haven't seen (i.e. everything other than your hole cards, the board cards, or cards shown/announced by other players) is counted as possible outs. For the same reason, outs don't change whether in heads-up or 10-way family pots. Just because there's more cards in play doesn't change the stats, because you have equal chance at being dealt any given remaining card.

FT Support said:

Truth is, if you
didn't fold, odds are you won't have the same flop.

Click to expand...

This statement sends shivers down my spine

Why not burn a card? There wouldnt be as many bad beats online. That would take away all the "rigged" talk and make online poker more like live.

brianvoytek said:

Why not burn a card? There wouldnt be as many bad beats online.

Click to expand...

...why would there not be as many bad beats, please explain.

brianvoytek said:

Why not burn a card? There wouldnt be as many bad beats online.

Click to expand...

This statement sends shivers down my spine

brianvoytek said:

Why not burn a card? There wouldnt be as many bad beats online. That would take away all the "rigged" talk and make online poker more like live.

Click to expand...

Please be a level.

FWIW, if someone invented 100% unmarkable cards we wouldn't bother to burn cards in live poker either.

yes we would or how do you sujest we light our cigars hmmmm lol