Ring Games, Tournamnets, or SNG's?

between the three, which is more profitable? Ring Games, tourny's, or sng's?

obviously this is hard question to answer as all 3 are played differently and all 3 can be profitable.

but, of the three, where can the most profit be found?

or where do u presonally make the most profit?
I know I make most of mine in ring games

any thoughts would be greatky appreciated

well i love ring gamesjust cause i like them. but on fulltilt they got some of the best gurantees around where u can win thousands for like 5 bucks to enter. depends what u like!

Have you heard of "Livb112" he's a regular highstakes sng grinder at fulltilt. In this year he has made over 700 000$ playing sitngo (headsup)

I prefer the action at 6max cashgame though.

For me the way to make the easiest money are SnG especially low stakes when players go all in fast if you resist the need to go all in and play it calmy and choose the right hands to play you'll make it. For MTT in order to make really good money you need to make it to the final table and that is never easy. In ring games could be if you choose the right hands and make the proper raises you could take much money to your bankroll. I hope this help GL and hopefully you'll next post will be "I made a lot of money "

Yeah all three take vastly different approaches and consistancy to be profitable. I've always enjoyed sit n gos, but that's more of a grind to see really good ROI. Multi-tabling cash games might be more "bang for your buck" and bit MTT seem like a crapshoot to me.

Definitely S&Gs for me, although I have cashed in quite a few MTTs recently.

i think ring games are the most profitable for sure. Sng has given me some good time, but if u can afford playing ring games thats the way to win the most money.

Play what you love. You will never be the be the best you can possibly be if you don't love what you do.

I'm doing MTT and Sng's.

lots of good advice, thanks guys

i personally have made alot more in ring games, over a 1000.00


about 500 in small sng's, about a 1/3 heads up.


and maybe 30.00 in mtt's

Depends 100% on the player.

At the moment I'm finding my most consistent wins are at single table SnGs, but that's not to say it'll always be the case.

My bankroll is made only from Sit&go and MTT's i dont do well most the time in the Ring games or if you play a patient game it takes to long to go up in money... I play the 45man sit&go on stars and sometime try the 4$ 180

I play the occaisional big MTT to take a shot (and try to pull a jaketrevvor) and every once in a while I decide to try some sngs just to mix it up and so I don't get bored. I've found sngs are profitable for me, but I just don't like them because of the swings. I usually play the $3.40s in sets of 4, thus either 2 cashes, at least one of which is not 3rd place or 1 1st place cash is enough to have a positive net (it's 10 players, 1st pays $15, 2nd pays $9, 3rd pays $6. Entry fee combination is $3.40*4 = $13.60). I'll have days where through like 3 sets of this I'll have moneyed in like 2 of them, and those being like a 2nd and a 3rd, and then I'll have the days (this actually happened) where I take 1st in 3 and 2nd in the other one. Swings happen in ring games but I just don't like the part about sngs where if you have one bad beat to a bigger stack you're out.

I haven't played a sng in quite a while, but I imagine if I do I'll play something higher than the $3.40s, that was back when my bankroll was around $100 or so, and it's hopefully soon to be $1,000 (crossing my fingers).


Basically I just enjoy ring games more and I think I'm better at them. Tournament play gets really complex for 2 reasons. First off it's complex in and of itself because each chip in your stack has a different value (so a raise of 200 is more than 4 times a raise of 50, ponder that one ), and secondly the other people in the tournament play it really strangely sometimes. You've got the people open shoving like 40 big blinds and there are just so many reasons they could be doing that in a sng. Do they just need to leave? Are they in panic mode and they need to accumulate chips? Are they the type that sees a good hand and pushes all-in because they can't play postflop?

I realize some of those questions still hold in ring games, and that technically these extra decisions and peculiarities should make a skilled poker player easier to win, and I haven't played and tracked enough sngs to get a reasonable estimate of my winrate and don't really plan to start. I play almost all cash games live, am doing really well at the online ring games, so I'll stick with those for now.

zachvac said:

I play the occaisional big MTT to take a shot (and try to pull a jaketrevvor)

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weeeeeeeeeeeeeee (but I hope this comment isn't orientated around me being at all lucky.... obv just proish skillz.)

OP: Rings games feel like a job for me now in the sense that I can be fairly consistently profitable but there's not as much fun and intrigue anymore. Sngs combine horrible variance with grind-like qualities - imo made by the devil. By default I'm going to try out MTTs for now . Variance is gooot.

jaketrevvor said:

OP: Rings games feel like a job for me now in the sense that I can be fairly consistently profitable but there's not as much fun and intrigue anymore. Sngs combine horrible variance with grind-like qualities - imo made by the devil. By default I'm going to try out MTTs for now . Variance is gooot.

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Isn't profiting in poker in general a grind? Sure when you win the big one it feels really good (not that I'd know, but assuming I'm right, usually a good assumption ), but the variance is even higher in MTTs than in sngs (which you described as having horrible variance). It all depends on what you want out of poker, but if you want to make a steady profit, it's going to be a grind. What's the saying, poker's the toughest way to make easy money? It's true. The grind-like qualities are part of what I enjoy about poker actually, knowing that I can play as long as I want but what I put into it is what I'm going to get out of it. The fun for me is (hopefully) watching the graph rise overtime, along with the dollar amount in my account. The fun for me is working hard to become the best I can at poker and then seeing it pay off. I am extremely competitive and I like to win. So I think striving to do the best I can to win and then seeing the work pay off is what makes it fun. It's not easy, but hell nothing in life worth anything is. Good luck, I know it is very possible to profit off of MTTs, but you'll need to be ready for humongous variance and extremely disciplined. After not even cashing in 15-20 tourneys in a row (please use proper BRM for MTTs, I've heard 1%) you need to just be able to keep playing the same thing (or else move down if your BR takes a hit) and not decide to go and play the Sunday million after not cashing in a ton of $20 MTTs in a row. I'm not taking a shot at your decision last night, hell I said I'd probably play it if I were you, but that was your one shot. If you decide to do that more times that money you won will be gone before you can process it. It'll be even tougher for you because when you're grinding the lower MTTs you'll always have that $3k+ win in the back of your mind. Just remember that although taking shots is fun, and I really don't mind doing that once in a while, they overall are usually -ev, and you're just hoping for some luck. If you want to profit at MTTs it's going to be a grind, but if you enjoy them more than ring games or sngs, I say go for it. Plus when you get deep in a big MTT you get people cheering you on. Not many people want to rail you just because you've won 5 buy-ins in a ring game session but if you double your stack in the MTT 5 times you're sure to get some people from CC cheering you on. I'll definitely be there again if you get deep.

Anyway I've probably rambled on long enough. You have the poker skills to win, now the question is do you have the BR skills (including not tilting) and the discipline skills (to keep working on getting better). Only one way to find out . Good luck, hope to see you around at the tables.

Ok, firstly zach I obv respect you a massive amount as a poker player - especially in a cash game context where you seem to absolutely rape every level . I agree that the variance in MTTs is humungous compared to cash games and if I do indeed become an mtt grinder (which looks likely at least in the short term) I'm sure that there will be runs where I don't even cash for an incredibly long time. But it is this ubervariance that keeps the mtt grinding exciting imo. I know this is obv very easy to say off the back of a big score but loseloselose is a glorious precursor for the big win. I also enjoy looking at a graph steadily rise, but I enjoy more the euphoria I get when I make it to the ft and hu of a massive mtt, something that I've been lucky enough to experience twice in my life so far. Not only this but as you mentioned - having 20 ppl come and encourage you is really quite an amazing feeling as well, a mix of importance and invincibility which obv leads to happiness. So in a way I play tourneys coz I <3 railers . Overall tourneys combine a little bit of grind (not a bad thing by any means) with happy cuddly feelings so mtt > cash games which have ubergrind properties + a more subdued happiness over time which does not = euphoria.

Oh and yes, I'm BRMing like a biatch - no tourneys over $30+3, and I still can't decide how much to withdraw...

jaketrevvor said:

Ok, firstly zach I obv respect you a massive amount as a poker player - especially in a cash game context where you seem to absolutely rape every level . I agree that the variance in MTTs is humungous compared to cash games and if I do indeed become an mtt grinder (which looks likely at least in the short term) I'm sure that there will be runs where I don't even cash for an incredibly long time. But it is this ubervariance that keeps the mtt grinding exciting imo. I know this is obv very easy to say off the back of a big score but loseloselose is a glorious precursor for the big win. I also enjoy looking at a graph steadily rise, but I enjoy more the euphoria I get when I make it to the ft and hu of a massive mtt, something that I've been lucky enough to experience twice in my life so far. Not only this but as you mentioned - having 20 ppl come and encourage you is really quite an amazing feeling as well, a mix of importance and invincibility which obv leads to happiness. So in a way I play tourneys coz I <3 railers . Overall tourneys combine a little bit of grind (not a bad thing by any means) with happy cuddly feelings so mtt > cash games which have ubergrind properties + a more subdued happiness over time which does not = euphoria.

Oh and yes, I'm BRMing like a biatch - no tourneys over $30+3, and I still can't decide how much to withdraw...

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OK sounds like you've thought this through and made a smart decision. I just know several people in real life who talk about when they're 21 how since they're such great poker players, they'll go play in the big tournaments and make millions and yadda yadda yadda. Obviously you realize that's not really all that probable (as in probability=0 lol). I was just worried when you put something about a grind being a bad thing.

That's the one thing I like about good poker players in general is they not only are good at poker but have a good jump on life. They realize that nothing worth having is going to come easy, but that if you work really hard to acheive something you've got a good shot at getting there. You're probably not going to get that pro sports contract and even if you do, you're going to have to work really really hard to get there. Life is a grind, but that doesn't mean it can't be fun.

I do believe you're going to do great though. From your posts here and playing with you it's obvious you're a good player (plus I can feel like Phil Ivey with all the multi-level thinking, coming over the top of a re-raise with crap, putting you on crap as well ), and it looks like you're a better tournament player (not just based on the results, there were several plays I saw that I didn't understand at first, but when I thought about them for a while I realized how good they were). Anyway sounds like you've thought it through and are doing this for a good reason, good luck (and gl also for the rest of that $10 re-buy).

And to the OP, sorry for that hijack, but obviously the answer is pick what you're best at. I feel I'm best at cash, jt feels he's best in MTTs. Both Irexes and AG have been really successful in MTTs I believe while tenbob and ChuckTs both have been really successful in ring games (I know there are more for both, just the few that came to mind). It's just what you feel comfortable and where you do best at. Basically if you can profit from it at a reasonable rate and enjoy it, do it. Getting money from something you enjoy is always nice .

greener_lax said:

between the three, which is more profitable? Ring Games, tourny's, or sng's?

obviously this is hard question to answer as all 3 are played differently and all 3 can be profitable.

but, of the three, where can the most profit be found?

or where do u presonally make the most profit?
I know I make most of mine in ring games

any thoughts would be greatky appreciated

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I make my money in ring games also.

My "style" of poker is passive, I tend to play awhile and only premium hands until I'm ready to steal a big pot. I think when I saw the styles defined somewhere mine was called "rock" whatever that means.

I have yet to win one of the 45 person SnG on Stars, no idea why I haven't. I can usually do well in their shootout style of tournaments which are just multiple SnG's.

As for tournaments I've only played in low limit ones so far. I have no idea if people play as badly and suck out as badly at higher levels.

MDTed said:

mine was called "rock" whatever that means.

I have yet to win one of the 45 person SnG on Stars, no idea why I haven't.

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For the answer to your second comment, read the first quoted above. Playing like a rock will not make you a very good profit and if you want to win a 45-person sng? You can kind of forget that one. Winning a tournament like that requires accumulating chips, and playing like a rock is not the way to do it. You may be able to grind out a small profit playing like a rock against bad players at ring games, but you won't win many tournaments (you may have a lot of barely placing or bubbling). I'd advise trying to loosen up a little bit, get a little bit more aggressive on flops where you miss but suspect your opponent may have missed as well, and use positional advantage. Just keep reading around the forums. If the rock style is working for you I'd stick with it but if my predictions are right (just barely breaking even and bubbling/barely ITM in most tourneys) I would work on what I mentioned earlier here. A rock is one of the easiest opponents to play against as well so if you ever get to the point where you're playing against semi-intelligent opponents, you're going to be destroyed playing like a rock.

Me I prefer cash games because they dont take so much time,but I think you can make the most profit by playing MTTs, but unfortunately you must have a lot of luck and pation.

I think it 100% depends on the particular person as to what you will get more profit playing. Personally, I started playing SnGs and that worked for a while, but then i had a bad run with them, where it felt like i would catch a max of 1 hand early on, which would get a terrible flop...then the blinds would rise and i would have to risk it and often get knocked out. SnGs are more "harsh" imo if you are having a bad run because even if you play crap/unlucky in ring games it doesn't mean you will bust out for everything. MTTs i find are too random to be played consistently but on the odd occasion for more of a lottery shot and to mix things up i play them v occassionally.

I like cash games coz 1. i can leave whenever i want so i never have to commit a certain time period (and there are many many things that take a priority to playing poker for me so that is good) and 2. i like to fold quite alot and not worry about the blinds rising and then play very agressively when i get any hand/decent position where i think i have a good chance of winning. Just doesn't seem to work well for me in SnGs...not sure why but i just choose not to play them anymore.

feitr I refer you to post #19 as you seem fairly categorised as a "rock" persona as well.

I think your point about having to commit a set amount of time to MTTs (and usually a large amount at that) is a very good one and is one of the real annoyances of tourney poker. Luckily I have nm of life so it's in most cases fine . In this same vein it can be very annoying when your internet crashes or the like if you're in a tourney - this is also not a problem in cash games.

I personal like sit ang go satelites.. Fks shootouts to the sunday mill..The standard of the players are really bad most times and u get a good prize if u win it..

Another satelite i like is the 200$ satelite to the 1k tuesday.. 1 in 5 gets 1050$ Thats easy money!

Now in these EPT times, u can allways buy in for the 109$ EPT San Remo qualifyer or something, and win 650$ if u unregister..

zachvac said:

For the answer to your second comment, read the first quoted above. Playing like a rock will not make you a very good profit and if you want to win a 45-person sng? You can kind of forget that one. Winning a tournament like that requires accumulating chips, and playing like a rock is not the way to do it. You may be able to grind out a small profit playing like a rock against bad players at ring games, but you won't win many tournaments (you may have a lot of barely placing or bubbling). I'd advise trying to loosen up a little bit, get a little bit more aggressive on flops where you miss but suspect your opponent may have missed as well, and use positional advantage. Just keep reading around the forums. If the rock style is working for you I'd stick with it but if my predictions are right (just barely breaking even and bubbling/barely ITM in most tourneys) I would work on what I mentioned earlier here. A rock is one of the easiest opponents to play against as well so if you ever get to the point where you're playing against semi-intelligent opponents, you're going to be destroyed playing like a rock.

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That's good advice.

My style does work on single table SnG though, just not anything where I have to knock out multiple tables worth of players.

I have made about 300% profit over my original investment so far. It's very slow and a little boring. Since I'm playing more for entertainment than to make a living maybe I should change my real money game to be more like my freeroll game.

I tend to do well in the freerolls, the ones from CC, ones elsewhere. Even the 10,000 player ones on PS.

Perhaps I'm just too cautious.

jaketrevvor said:

feitr I refer you to post #19 as you seem fairly categorised as a "rock" persona as well.

I think your point about having to commit a set amount of time to MTTs (and usually a large amount at that) is a very good one and is one of the real annoyances of tourney poker. Luckily I have nm of life so it's in most cases fine . In this same vein it can be very annoying when your internet crashes or the like if you're in a tourney - this is also not a problem in cash games.

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nah...i probably didn't describe how i play well. I rarely limp into a pot. If i have a low pp/suited connector/gap connector i'll probably limp if im not on the button. Other than that, most hands i play i make sure there is a lot of money in preflop in any hand i have. I'll follow up raise even if i missed unless im pretty sure somebody hit...ill even reraise with nothing at times if i have position on a looser player who i think is trying to steal the pot or just put a feeler bet out there. I would think a "rock" is somebody that folds all hands until they get a premium hand. It totally depends on the table as to how i play however. Some tight tables i will raise with crap often in order to steal blinds/steal pot after flop. Some loose tables i will fold almost everything until i get a good hand, because you can't steal blinds etc vs loose players; however, when u hit a hand you get payed off very nicely.

What i meant by folding alot of hands was moreorless that I just don't tend to limp in with hands with litlte potential in the unlikely hope of hitting a very disguised hand. I just like raising into a pot because i can come on very strongly post flop. Gives you alot of information about what kind of hand the guy has...ie. is he on a flush/straight draw in which case you can bet hard after the turn if the card comes dead or did he hit top pair with a bad kicker in which case he'll probably call u to SD and you want to check/fold the rest of the hand.