Redeal Said the TD

Redeal Said the TD and I got my BB back.

I disagreed but what's the point of arguing about it. I don't have to get my way just because I'm right.

Anywho

I was BB and had folded. 8 players and it was down to a 2 player all in, one player was all in against the BS, after the flop. The dealer gathered the dead cards and added them to the live deck and wasn't sure what was what.

I thought the deck as it was, dead cards and all, should have been shuffled and the turn and the river dealt.

I'm under the impression that once cards are played/bets made, so to speak, there are almost no circumstances that call for/allow a re-deal.

???

Just because they have the 'TD' title, doesn't mean they have a clue.

WCFields said:

I thought the deck as it was, dead cards and all, should have been shuffled and the turn and the river dealt.

I'm under the impression that once cards are played/bets made, so to speak, there are almost no circumstances that call for/allow a re-deal.

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While you're right about there being almost no circumstances that call for a redeal after significant action has taken place (it can happen preflop if someone only gets one card, for example), there are almost no circumstances where dead cards should be put back in the deck either.

This one just makes my mind boggle - WTF did the dealer do that he couldn't tell the live deck from the dead cards, actually shuffle the muck back into the deck?!?

I've got no idea what the appropriate reaction to this one is, the situation's just too bizarre. Resetting and starting the hand from scratch seems the lesser of two evils though. If someone got knocked out by a card that wasn't even supposed to be in the live deck... ouch.

I never got a final conclusive answer to this. Probably because I was a newbie.

Now that I am notorious maybe the big guns will respond.


15-10-2008 12:00 PM WCFields Redeal Said the TD and I got my BB back.

I disagreed but what's the point of arguing about it. I don't have to get my way just because I'm right.

Anywho

I was BB and had folded. 8 players and it was down to a 2 player all in, one player was all in against the BS, after the flop. The dealer gathered the dead cards and added them to the live deck and wasn't sure what was what.

I thought the deck as it was, dead cards and all, should have been shuffled and the turn and the river dealt.

I'm under the impression that once cards are played/bets made, so to speak, there are almost no circumstances that call for/allow a re-deal.

???

Oz is a professional dealer and he didn't know, so...

TD's decision is final


So if he says redeal, its a redeal.

Its an odd situation to come up.

Shoot the dealer!

shoot the dealer and the td cause td is wrong also but what he says goes redeal after the flop there is no such thing lol

WCFields said:

I never got a final conclusive answer to this. Probably because I was a newbie.

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And you may never get a "conclusive" answer on this because it is so totally outside the norm. When there are no rules specifically on something that is utterly bizarre and/or stupid, then the TD has to make a ruling. In most cases that decision will be what the TD feels is in the best interests of the game to keep things fair overall. So the most conclusive answer that you're going to get here is probably that he did what he felt was right at the time based on the facts at hand.

As it was, imo, since the dealer f'd up and added the muck cards to the deck, the hand should have been over. All bets made should have been returned to the prospective players. You can't shuffle in the dead cards and redeal for the same hand. Of course, that's just my opinion, and not at all conclusive, but makes the most sense to me.

in such a case what would be your recourse? is there a supervisor at the facility where you could complain about the TD?

phillypoker said:

in such a case what would be your recourse? is there a supervisor at the facility where you could complain about the TD?

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TD has the final word. He could, if he felt appropriate, call in another management person to consult, but the decision would still be his, and his alone.

A complaint could always be lodged with management about the handling of the situation, but it would be after the fact, and after the redeal.

I really don't have much to add to what I said months ago, and what the others have said here is correct: there are some situations that are just too bizarre / stupid for there to be an actual rule on them. In those situations, the tournament director makes a ruling as to whatever he thinks the fairest outcome is and everyone abides by it.

This sounds like it was definitely one of those situations. There's no way to fix the problem and get the correct cards out on the board, and an outcome for the hand (correct or otherwise) hasn't been reached so it's different to the missing burn card hand that we've been discussing in the other thread. Plus there's only two players involved in the action, so it's relatively easy to split the pot back up and return the chips to their original owners.

If I were the TD, I strongly suspect I'd do the exact same thing. The deck is a mess beyond correction, but the pot isn't and the game can be returned to the state it was in before the hand took place. It shouldn't happen in the first place, but once it has I think they probably took the best of a bad bunch of options.