Razz Poker: The who, what, why, when, where, and how of it all

Jack Daniels

Jack Daniels

Charcoal Mellowed
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
13,414
Chips
0
This has now been tailored to be the general Razz Poker discussion thread for all things Razz. Simple or general conversation, questions, and discussions should take place here to minimize fragmenting the limited Razz discussions that we have going on here.

Of course that doesn't stop anyone from starting a new thread in the Strategy or Learning Poker forums if there is a specific topic to be discussed in detail and focused on. Likewise, if there is any Poker Hand Analysis to take place for either Tournament Hands or Ring Game Hands, then those threads should be created there as well.

Again, the purpose of this clean up was to consolidate various discussions into a single general purpose thread, so I would also suggest that as any threads are created in the various other forums noted above, it might be a good idea to post those links here so the small Razz contingent that we have can better find and reply to those topics.
 
Last edited:
N

nottocer

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Total posts
63
Chips
0
Talk about your no skill at all what so ever game. This game is like hide and seek---Play and pray. Everyone betting to max on every card hoping for the draw. It's nothing more than a slots casino game.
 
M

mozart5

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Total posts
70
Chips
0
i like razz. sounds to me like you had a few people i would love at my table. got to take advantage of their bad play. i think it is one of the easier games to play. but there are many that play it and no nothing about how to play. at tilt they have a freeroll with 2400 peeps in it. only about 200 know how to play well. i may be exaggerating a little though. but there is skill involved for some of us that play it regularly.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
I'd probably agree that there's a biggere element of luck in Razz than some other games, because it's the only game where you can't be dealt a made hand so every hand you play will involve some amount of drawing.

There's definitely skill to it though, and I think it's one of the games where being skilled can make the biggest difference to your win rate.

It's a frustrating game, but that doesn't mean it doesn't require skill.
 
P

peachy00

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Total posts
67
Chips
0
very well written oz. your explanation to the game is true. i am one of those who gets confused with the winning low hand though. sometimes i think i have the winning hand yet the winner is someone with a higher (low) card but a closer sequence. i would appriciate if this could be explained please. :p
 
T

thejuanupsman

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Total posts
409
Chips
0
Talk about your no skill at all what so ever game. This game is like hide and seek---Play and pray. Everyone betting to max on every card hoping for the draw. It's nothing more than a slots casino game.

Absolutely not true. Sure there is a luck element. But most people think it is more luck than it is because they think it is a simpler game than it is. And a lot of people who don't get the game play super aggressively. But if you look closely you will see that the same people consistently make it to the final tables in the razz free rolls and low limit tournaments. In my experience more so than any of the other types . When I make it to a final table in hold em or Omaha I only rarely see a table full of other people I know. In Razz I almost always know most of the table. Luck isn't that consistent.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
very well written oz. your explanation to the game is true. i am one of those who gets confused with the winning low hand though. sometimes i think i have the winning hand yet the winner is someone with a higher (low) card but a closer sequence. i would appriciate if this could be explained please. :p

I think I know what you're getting at. Your hand consists of your five lowest cards, but they're assessed from the highest of those five cards down.

For example, 76543xx beats 8432Axx - the first hand is a seven low, and the second is an eight low.
 
qwerrk

qwerrk

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 3, 2005
Total posts
188
Chips
0
sometimes i think i have the winning hand yet the winner is someone with a higher (low) card but a closer sequence. i would appriciate if this could be explained please. :p

Aces play low of course, but when comparing hands start with your highest card and work down.

As an example let's say you have:
8752A

opponent has:
87432 (winner)

Sorry if you went all-in on that, but the 3rd card is the decider on that hand.
 
R

RazzleDazzle

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Total posts
112
Chips
0
Absolutely not true. Sure there is a luck element. But most people think it is more luck than it is because they think it is a simpler game than it is. And a lot of people who don't get the game play super aggressively. But if you look closely you will see that the same people consistently make it to the final tables in the razz free rolls and low limit tournaments. In my experience more so than any of the other types . When I make it to a final table in hold em or Omaha I only rarely see a table full of other people I know. In Razz I almost always know most of the table. Luck isn't that consistent.

I completely agree with you 100%. My opinion of Razz is that most people just don't know how to play properly - I believe that there is pretty much a way to play razz perfectly. If everyone knew how to play Razz perfectly, the game might be a lot more about luck (although there are ways to adjust your game play to take advantage of opponents skill level) but people just don't play it properly, and it is of course a game where patience and calmness is essential because it is very easy to get frustrated.

One of my favorite parts of razz is watching the other players make mistakes, because based on the face up cards, you can tell what someone should do - and when they don't do it, its almost certain that they paired the ace or the two or whatever, because since razz is a limit game, its not a particularly good idea to try and trap your opponent, especially given that the hand can change a lot with each card dealt.

When I first signed up for Full Tilt, the very first time I played the razz freeroll i came in tenth, second time i believe i made it to the top 100 and played too agressively on the bubble and lost to a suck out, third time I played in it i took first. So I definitely agree that it is possible to consistently do well in razz. Skill is very important in Razz because there is so much information available to you given that there are so many face up cards.
 
Last edited:
smd173

smd173

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Total posts
1,520
Chips
0
Everyone betting to max on every card hoping for the draw.

What are you playing play money Razz? That doesn't happen that often, even in $3.40 SNGs.

As mentioned by others, there is plenty of skill in Razz. Sorry, you haven't been able to pick that up yet. But I'm sure you haven't played the game enough.

There is very much an edge that can be pushed in the game to be profitable at it. Both in SNGs and Ring.
 
MrMuckets

MrMuckets

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Total posts
2,379
Awards
2
Chips
0
I love threads like this where somebody who doesn't understand a game puts it down as a no skill game. :D:D:D:D
 
HomerQ

HomerQ

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Total posts
18
Chips
0
I enjoy playing razz but everytime i do i seem to get the cards i need to play Stud. it is a frustrating game but i really enjoy it
 
Rememberthis1

Rememberthis1

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Total posts
330
Chips
0
There is skilled involved.

I mean, say you have A26K showing and your 3 under cards are all jacks, you could probably push someone off a hand like 45678, unless he's an idiot.
 
R

RazzleDazzle

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Total posts
112
Chips
0
There is skilled involved.

I mean, say you have A26K showing and your 3 under cards are all jacks, you could probably push someone off a hand like 45678, unless he's an idiot.

You probably would not be able to push someone off the 45678 in that situation. If you are first dealt 2 jacks and an Ace, you really only should bet if everyone has folded to you, and the remaining people left to act have a high card up, like a king. In that situation, theres a good chance that they are both going to fold and you will not even reach the river. Otherwise you should not be playing JJA, not even to see another card.
 
flint

flint

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 8, 2007
Total posts
716
Awards
1
Chips
0
Definately a skill game where stealing (in tournament play) and knowing when to fold are crucial.

Also looking at the cards that are gone are important as a hand that has some of its cards gone can increase the winning percentages of that hand substantially.

I think that it is possible to make more money off most non-holdem games as most of the players have not understood the theory behind the games.
 
J

josh_dei8

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Total posts
252
Chips
0
Razz is fun to play and hard to understand the ins and outs of it. This is one game when you play, you really cant multi-task. It is important to watch what up cards are dealt and folded by other players. Are these cards you need to complete your low hand or are they folding high cards which means you wont get dealt these and your chances of hitting your low cards are better. Fun game, if you think this is tough try 2-7 triple draw
 
P

peachy00

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Total posts
67
Chips
0
thank you ozexorcist and qwerrk for you help explaining a low winning hand. i now have a much better understanding of the 5 low cards. your help was appriciated :p
 
W

WolfShadow

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 2, 2008
Total posts
118
Chips
0
If u like razz then u ought to try Badugi , carbon has a freeroll daily and pokerstar is goin to be adding it to their games.
 
ryodejaneiro

ryodejaneiro

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Total posts
459
Chips
0
I enjoy playing razz but everytime i do i seem to get the cards i need to play Stud. it is a frustrating game but i really enjoy it

LOL. I know exactly what you mean. I was playing razz recently, and I got rolled up Aces as my starting hand. I've yet to get three aces in stud (haven't been playing that long) but I get one in razz. Couldn't help but laugh at that.
 
B

bobboss171

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Total posts
92
Chips
0
Razz ?------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------

I love to play Razz.
I play with Logica in the game so I will if I have good 3 cards.
But there are several players who play freeroll principalemnte in Logica with no betting in any way and risking moves into useless.
 
qwerrk

qwerrk

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 3, 2005
Total posts
188
Chips
0
thank you ozexorcist and qwerrk for you help explaining a low winning hand. i now have a much better understanding of the 5 low cards. your help was appriciated :p

yvw

If you ever play in the 9PM EST Razz FR at FullTilt, I'm often there, I'll keep an eye out for ya :)

Definitely a fun tourney and generally peppered with players w/out a clue that can lead to some easy pickin's ;)

Very true what the other poster said about not multi-tasking and keeping close track of cards.

On a separate note, what's up with the troll-spam puke-fest from poster nottocer? Need to run up that post count, do ya? Pretty lame posts; I doubt site-admin appreciates that.

ttfn
 
rotocub

rotocub

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Total posts
175
Chips
0
I've only played it a few times, both live and online, but I can understand what I heard about the game early on. Some pro was discussing Razz and said there was always a table near the back of a poker room he went to that was full of old guys that always looked as if they were the most miserable bunch in the world.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
I've only played it a few times, both live and online, but I can understand what I heard about the game early on. Some pro was discussing Razz and said there was always a table near the back of a poker room he went to that was full of old guys that always looked as if they were the most miserable bunch in the world.

I don't think anyone, even regular razz players, will argue that the game can be intensely frustrating.

Part of the skill in playing razz successfully is actually emotional control. If you fly into fits of mouse-hurling, dealer-cursing rage when your aces get cracked in hold 'em, razz is definitely not the game for you. In fact, that makes you the kind of player that good razz players profit from.

Personally, I've learned to see the funny side of (A2)3KK hands. Because gawd knows I'm probably going to laugh when the same thing happens to my opponents and I get to take the pot away with something marginal. In the long run my opponents will brick out their great starting hands just as often as I will.

Cliff Notes version: Razz. It's not for tilt-monkeys.
 
H

hewhoholdsaces

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Total posts
28
Chips
0
I am new to razz, but seem to have a niche for it, I have only played it a hand full of times and have finished in the top 10% every time, unfortunately, they have all been freerolls with only satelite seats at stake.
 
larkem

larkem

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Total posts
58
Chips
0
I am also new to razz and have a simple question someone should be able to answer.

My Hand: A 7 7 8 9 4 6

Do one of the 7's cancell out? making my playing hand A 4 6 7 8 ???

Im fairly sure they do just making sure?
 
Top