Quirky Tournament Thought

Falloooooon

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One thing I wonder about is what percentage of poker tournaments simply can not be won by a particular player no matter what he does. Sure, you’re often card dead and feel like you never had a chance in any particular one. But that’s because you’re folding all those crap hands. But it’s conceivable that you could pick all the right junk hands to play where you hit a flop nicely, or just keep yourself alive by making the right moves when you correctly identify weakness in your opponent(s). So really, how many tournaments do you play where you simply can not win, no matter what spectaculalrly odd but perfect plays you make?

Basically, sometimes you'll hear people say you can't even be sure you'll win a tournament if you always know what your opponents' cards are, because you might get your chips in a huge favorite and get sucked out on. Well, what if you even knew what cards were going to come on the board? Do you think that with all that knowledge you could still play a tourney that you couldn't possibly win?
 
Falloooooon

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Short bus just left, you guys can probably get the next one!
 
troyer16

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Cliff notes: Could you win a tourny if you knew the flop, turn, and river for every hand dealt to you, before they came?
 
TPC

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Quirky Tournament Thought

Ummmm... yes that was
 
Makwa

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Is this really a thought or just an attempt at one?
 
Falloooooon

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Cliff notes: Could you win a tourny if you knew the flop, turn, and river for every hand dealt to you, before they came?

Could you not win? I would think it's certainly possible, but also that the chances are very slim that even if you knew which rag hands to play because you'd win, that you still couldn't pull it off.
 
Infamous1020

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lol is this some sort of chaos theory type thing?
 
Falloooooon

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Ok, everyone can go back to the rigged threads. It wasn't meant to be serious or anything, but I find it an interesting idea. The mockery is kind of sad.
 
PattyR

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lmao

awesome thread we got going here.
 
wagon596

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Cousin Vinny

As from the movie, My Cousin Vinny, " ARE YOU ON DRUGS " LOL

Cya'll
 
dufferdevon

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ok, let's give the op some slack here. This is the opposite of the Potripper scandal. Instead of knowing the other player's hole cards, you know what cards are going to come on the board.
I think you would do very well, but there would be instances where your going to get set over set, two pair vs set. You should do very well but you could never be sure you had the best hand.
 
TPC

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ok, let's give the op some slack here. This is the opposite of the Potripper scandal. Instead of knowing the other player's hole cards, you know what cards are going to come on the board.
I think you would do very well, but there would be instances where your going to get set over set, two pair vs set. You should do very well but you could never be sure you had the best hand.


This is true. However, just tighten up your range a little. Don't hold a lot stock in a small set, you know there will be other spots. you can also limp a lot more, cause you know what's coming. If you're weak or light, keep the post small like you normaly would do. You know your outs are coming as well. IMO you win almost every tourny. However, I didn't put a lot of thought in this. And yes the extreem coolers, you couldn't avoid, but again, I would focus on taking down all the small pots anyway.
 
coolnout

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I really like MTT poker. But, like you said there's gonna be times when you just simply cannot win. I've had those times where someone seems to be running good and always seems to be one card ahead of you. You're dealt AQ, he's dealt AK. You have pocket King's, he's got pocket Aces. If you knew the cards on the board you still might run into a situation where someone has a better hand then you. But, I don't think you'd be shortstacked most of the time and I'd like my chances.
 
tenbob

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It would be a massive percentage of the time i rekon. You really never need play anything but the nuts or close to it, if I was given a choice I'd rather see my opponents hole cards than the board, but i dont see how you wouldnt be rich from either.
 
Four Dogs

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lol> i actually like that question. Yes I think it's possible to not win but I think you'd go deep if not Heads up every time. The problem would come very late in the tournament where the table is short, the blinds are high and starting cards matter more than the board. Of course by that time you should have such a massive chip lead that you could weather just about any storm but I could see a scenario where you're up against an aggressive player HU with a big enough stack to hurt you that just kills you with all-in raises and you don't have the luxory of waiting for a TPTK or better. So I guess the answer is No you wouldn't win every tournament but if you have any idea at all how to play it should be close.

BTW, something similar did happen in the early days of on-line poker where some MIT genious type grad students cracked the RNG algorythm at Planet Poker. After the flop they had enough Data to calculate the exact holding of all the other players as well as the turn and river to come. Fortunately they were more curious then greeddy and immediately published their results. I'm sure they got an A+ on whatever project it was they were working on.
 
V

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One thing I wonder about is what percentage of poker tournaments simply can not be won by a particular player no matter what he does. Sure, you’re often card dead and feel like you never had a chance in any particular one. But that’s because you’re folding all those crap hands. But it’s conceivable that you could pick all the right junk hands to play where you hit a flop nicely, or just keep yourself alive by making the right moves when you correctly identify weakness in your opponent(s). So really, how many tournaments do you play where you simply can not win, no matter what spectaculalrly odd but perfect plays you make?

Basically, sometimes you'll hear people say you can't even be sure you'll win a tournament if you always know what your opponents' cards are, because you might get your chips in a huge favorite and get sucked out on. Well, what if you even knew what cards were going to come on the board? Do you think that with all that knowledge you could still play a tourney that you couldn't possibly win?

Quirky is right but I like the thought. I think another way of looking at this question is "how much does luck play a part in winning a tourney?" If you know your opponents cards, you would only get chips in when you are favourite in a hand. However you can still get beaten in that hand as we all know to our cost and frustration. Also will you win enough chips in those hands to win the tournament?

Nice thought in my opinion. Makes for a interesting topic.

Adam
 
Falloooooon

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For the record, I was not saying that you know the board cards but not your opponent's cards. I meant that you know everything. Therefore, how often are your cards just not good enough or lucky enough to be able to win the tournament. Your cards simply won't win enough pots or enough big ones to win the tournament, even if you know everything.

And I appreciate some of the more receptive responses.
 
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