Originally Posted by icemonkey9
Sorry for Belgo's post Makwa, I assume you were looking to get some actual advice and not a smarmy comment.
I've read through FP's post myself and recently changed up my game a bit, specifically adapting it to Full Ring, but the *theory* is what's important.
Are you playing 6max or Full ring is the first question ... but seriously regardless, let's just say you are playing full ring. if you are in the first 3 positions you should be super tight. what that means is up to you but take a good look at pokerstove and explore what those percentages actually mean.
The top players at full ring play between a 11/9 and a 14/12 style (typically). As you get farther along in position you theoretically open up more and more and more.
Again these numbers are for theory because I know you need some tangible information to make the theory real.
"Technically Speaking" an 11% range includes AA-77, AKs-A9s, AKo-ATo, and hands like KQ-KTs, KQo, QJs, QTs.
Now, if you play an 11/9 game (super nit) does that mean if you are on UTG+1 you open up with KQo? Probably not, that's a hand you have to play in late position. To reiterate, you really should look at pokerstove if you are interested in what these percentages mean ... because it will REALLY help you gauge what is inside someone's range.
Well, I can say if your VPIP and PFR are 18/6 the problem looks like you are calling too much and raising preflop too little. If you do some data analysis you can see that top winners typically have the range I mentioned of 11/9 to 14/12 but usually the VPIP and PFR percentages are only 2-4% different. It's time to tighten the belt preflop a little and when you get in a hand, be the initiator and not the caller.
I wish I could be more specific but I wanted to put something up that would help you that wouldn't take 4.5 days to write. As I think of more or as people chew up my post, I'll post again.
This is a great answer, txs, for full ring tho. I was trying to follow up on FPs thread which is 6 max. Well said for full ring tho... Im not sure how to get pokerstove to show ranges...
Originally Posted by Richyl2008
The optimum range for all positions are going to be mostly dependent on the table dynamics. Table conditions can be vastly different, and you need to adjust your range to them in order to exploit the tendancies of the opponents at your table and to increase your expectation.
Of course, but the original thread and my question was about numbers overall (i.e. PT3 or HEM stats, not table dynamics).
Originally Posted by kleitches
lol, so you know that aiming for numbers is absolutely silly, yet you're adamant about getting ballpark figures anyway? Someone give him these figures so he can be a perfect poker player overnight
If you read FPs thread, it is largely about aiming at/examining numbers, and it is not something one can do overnight. This type of stats introspection can be quite time consuming and exhaustive actually. And no, I dont think the numbers are the be-all-and-end-all answer, but they are benchmarks that can be used to examine ones game. That is a lifetime process, not an overnight one.
Originally Posted by ChuckTs
Makwa you're really not listening to the people trying to help you here. You should not be aiming for specific numbers; there are no optimal stats. FP will tell you the same. Both a loose and a tight style can yield positive results. FP simply made a case for the tighter side.
In general you want to see your opening range widen almost exponentially as you move from EP to LP. Then in the blinds you should tighten up again.
As a general example, since you seem to be so set on the numbers, here are the stats of someone I consider to be a decent 'nit', EP to BB:
Txs very much for the reply to the question. Yes, there are optimal stats within each style, and here we are talking nit/TAG, and yes I will note those numbers above. I find the BB of 11/5 to be quite the drop in percentages; was not expecting that. BTW above produces overall of 17/14, which is tighter than in FPs thread (ouch).
Originally Posted by F Paulsson
As others have pointed out I don't like trying to achieve stats; I think in terms of ranges. And my opening ranges for the different positions were in that original thread.
As for which hands I'd flat a raise with preflop, that's obviously dependent on who's doing the raising but in general, I'm tighter than most people there, too.
OK txs. I am not trying to achieve stats so much as see how mine compare to others', to see what 'experts' think might be best ranges. If I see any wide discrepancy with my figures then there may be a hole that needs fixin'.
Originally Posted by Deltafrost
as of now i've officially lost respect for you. I tried to help and you basically told me to **** off if i wasnt FP. maybe next time send a PM if you dont want other help.
gg sir. way to be a d1ck
Sorry Delta, went a bit over top there. Its frustrating when a whack of people all talk around a simple question rather than try to answer it. Anyway, I appreciate your input too, just not what I needed for this discussion. Again, sorry for the flame.
Soo... we have above some numbers from ChuckT, and yes there are some ranges explained by FP in original thread, if anyone has any favorite numbers/ranges to add please do.
Yes we know it gets tighter or looser as we go around the orbit. I am trying to get specific, because if we can say our opening range is 17-19/14-16 overall, we should be able to also produce the numbers for each position. Thats all.