Question about Table Movement

K

Kennyseven

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Total posts
623
Chips
0
Just wondering what governs table movement in tournies. When a table gets broken up, is it computer selection on what table you get into? I was just thinking if it is human controlled, it is possible that there can be cheating going on. For example.... If you are collaborating with someone on the inside, he or she can move you to favorable tables. Is this possible?
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

CardsChat Regular
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
7,584
Awards
34
Chips
0
I thought it was to balance the number of chips at each table, but that doesn't always seem to be the case. I'd be interested in exactly how its done also.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Do you really think online site would pay someone to manually breakdown tables all day?

It's random, although obviously rigged. ;)
 
K

Kennyseven

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Total posts
623
Chips
0
Yes...very interested in how they do this. I have not found out anything on this subject.
 
K

Kennyseven

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Total posts
623
Chips
0
not saying it is rigged. But I would like to know how they do this, Live tournies also.
 
K

Kennyseven

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Total posts
623
Chips
0
I dont think so....I was in a tourny one time where there were 130 people left and top 4 chiip leaders were on same table.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
From Home Poker Tourney - How to Move Players in a Poker Tournament, Poker Tournament Seating

This explains how I do it in my monthly live MTT:

Method 1 - Move the player in the same seat

This method of moving players ensures that a moved player is never forced to post two big or small blinds in a row or allowed to deal two hands in a row. In addition, the moved player can simply fill the empty seat vacated by the eliminated player.
When a player is eliminated and a move must be made, the player ‘playing a hand’ in the same position (seat), relative to the button, at the highest-populated table must move to the eliminated player’s seat. In other words - if the player who busted out was four seats left of the button, move the player from the other table who is sitting four seats left of the button. The move must occur before the next hand is dealt, or the button is advanced, at any table. For the purpose of this rule, a player is ‘playing a hand’ once all the blinds/antes have been posted and the dealer has begun shuffling (riffles the deck).
Moving occurs at the conclusion of all hands presently being played at all tables. If several players must be moved at the same time, begin with the eliminated player, at the lowest populated table, closest to the left of the button. When forced to choose between removing a player from two equally populated tables, one card will be dealt (by the lower populated table’s dealer) to each of the two tables in question. The low-carded table will move a player.
A moved player will be dealt a hand at the start of the next deal and assume any obligation of the new seat including the posting of a blind or dealing.
moving-players.jpg

Move the player in the same seat relative to the button

There are 8 players at TableA, 8 players at TableB, and 7 players at TableC. A player three seats to the left of the button is eliminated from TableC. The TableC dealer deals one card to TableA and one card to TableB. The player presently playing a hand three seats to the left of the button, at the low-carded table, must move to the eliminated player’s seat at TableC. That player will post the big blind at the new table, just as he would have had to do if he had stayed at his original table.
 
Dwilius

Dwilius

CardsChat Regular
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
7,584
Awards
34
Chips
0
OK, thanks Hillbilly. Yes, table position is usually the same, I forgot about that. I guess in big tournaments its quite likely for the distribution of chips to get thrown off if this is how its decided.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
If you follow the link in my post above you'll also see that when combining 2 tables (like when you get to the final table) seating and dealer position are again random, like at the start of the tourney.
 
K

Kennyseven

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
Total posts
623
Chips
0
Hello Kenneth,

Thank you for your email.

There are two different times a player may be moved in a tournament.
A single player may be moved by himself to correct a table imbalance,
or an entire table may be "broken up" and distributed to the empty
seats at other tables.

A table break happens as soon as enough empty seats are available to
eliminate one table from play. If your table is chosen to be broken,
the re-seating algorithm is as it would be in a brick and mortar
room. It is completely random, as if seat cards were thrown face
down in the middle of the table.

While this does mean that it may be possible to move right back into
the blinds having just paid them, it also means you can move
from "under the gun" to a late position. All players are subject to
the same random chance in such a move.

When a player is chosen to be moved individually (such as one table
has only 7 players, while others have nine), we try to minimize the
number of moves. If possible, the system tries to choose a player who
has been moved less than others, or to choose a sitting out player.

Once the player to be moved is chosen, we try to find a seat available
for that player that has a relative position to the button close to
the one that the player was at previously.

In summary, there are two fundamental goals that the table balancing
system achieves, and they are:

a) to maintain blind position
b) to distribute movement evenly between players.

Overall, we have received very positive feedback since implementing
this system. I hope this clarifies for you how players are moved in
our tournaments.

Should you have further questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to
contact us again.

Regards,

Carlos M
pokerstars Support Team


----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2008/07/16 18:58:40
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: Table Movement

>Just wondering what governs what tables you get move to when you are in
>tournies? Is it computer generated or human controlled?
>
>
>
>**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live
music
>scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
>(Tour Dates and Concert Tickets Information on Tourtracker.com)
>
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
There's your answer.

Here's how they do it live (at least in casino tournaments):

The dealer has a "seat card" for every seat at their table. When a player is eliminated, the dealer calls the floor manager / tournament director over and gives them the seat card for the eliminated player.

When enough players (9-10) have been eliminated to break a whole table, the floor goes to a full table, spreads the seat cards face down on the table, and each player picks one at random. The card tells them where their new seat is.

The order in which tables are broken is usually set before the tournament starts.

In the event that the tournament director needs to balance the tables, as opposed to break a whole one, it's usually done by a high card draw, similar to when chips are raced off.
 
KingCurtis

KingCurtis

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 24, 2007
Total posts
9,946
Awards
1
Chips
1
Once again PS support amazes me....PS support ftw, obv not the site PS ftwe since they always win with rake :p. But tbh I'm glad you posted that email and everyone elses response because now I techinically know!
 
Pothole

Pothole

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Total posts
2,507
Chips
0
Kennyseven said:
Hello Kenneth,

Thank you for your email.

There are two different times a player may be moved in a tournament.
A single player may be moved by himself to correct a table imbalance,
or an entire table may be "broken up" and distributed to the empty
seats at other tables.

A table break happens as soon as enough empty seats are available to
eliminate one table from play. If your table is chosen to be broken,
the re-seating algorithm is as it would be in a brick and mortar
room. It is completely random, as if seat cards were thrown face
down in the middle of the table.

While this does mean that it may be possible to move right back into
the blinds having just paid them, it also means you can move
from "under the gun" to a late position. All players are subject to
the same random chance in such a move.

When a player is chosen to be moved individually (such as one table
has only 7 players, while others have nine), we try to minimize the
number of moves. If possible, the system tries to choose a player who
has been moved less than others, or to choose a sitting out player.

Once the player to be moved is chosen, we try to find a seat available
for that player that has a relative position to the button close to
the one that the player was at previously.

In summary, there are two fundamental goals that the table balancing
system achieves, and they are:

a) to maintain blind position
b) to distribute movement evenly between players.

Overall, we have received very positive feedback since implementing
this system. I hope this clarifies for you how players are moved in
our tournaments.

Should you have further questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to
contact us again.

Regards,

Carlos M
PokerStars Support Team


----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2008/07/16 18:58:40
To: support@pokerstars.com
Subject: Table Movement

>Just wondering what governs what tables you get move to when you are in
>tournies? Is it computer generated or human controlled?
>
>
>
>**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live
music
>scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
>(Tour Dates and Concert Tickets Information on Tourtracker.com)
>
Click to expand...

So please explain why a "player" gets yanked from a full table to supposedly balance the tables, and 10 seconds later a new player appears in the vacated seat without a table in the tournament being busted?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Pothole said:
So please explain why a "player" gets yanked from a full table to supposedly balance the tables, and 10 seconds later a new player appears in the vacated seat without a table in the tournament being busted?
Click to expand...

It doesn't happen. When you see a player leave your table and then get replaced it's because a table was busted.
 
ABorges

ABorges

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Total posts
268
Chips
0
Every time I'm moved I'm to the exact right of the 2 tournament chipleaders, regardless of how big it is. So rigged it's not even funny...
 
Top