Question about staking

zinzir

zinzir

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I have noticed several threads opened by people asking for staking, looking for backers. The sums of money were pretty modest and they wanted to trade a percentage of the buy-in in exchange for the same percentage of the potential winnings. They posted a description of their history highlighting their poker skills and personal worthiness. Also, after backers found, the player had to report to them about the playing, and they were not always happy with his timing or quality, in one case even suspecting him of trying to run away with their money.


What I don't understand is the rationale behind this type of staking. Why would someone go through all that instead of simply playing a lower buy-in tournament and paying the full buy-in himself? A lower buy-in tournament or tournaments would be, at least theoretically, easier to win and the player would not have to spent time and energy to advertise for the stake, take care of financial transactions (Paypal even charges the recipient a fee, if I'm not mistaken) or report to any backers.


I understand staking for a player who is broke and a backer pays him the buy-ins in exchange for a percentage of his potential winnings until he gets back on his feet. It makes sense, the backer pays the stake recipient for his work at the poker table, and there is an incentive to play as well as possible since he receives a percentage of the winnings. But the type of staking I saw here on Cardschat trades a percentage of buy-in for the exact same percentage of the winnings, so all the extra work and responsibility for the stake recipient, besides the actual playing, is completely free. So again, why do all that instead of playing a lower buy-in?
 
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YKCaiTLH1314

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I have noticed several threads opened by people asking for staking, looking for backers. The sums of money were pretty modest and they wanted to trade a percentage of the buy-in in exchange for the same percentage of the potential winnings. They posted a description of their history highlighting their poker skills and personal worthiness. Also, after backers found, the player had to report to them about the playing, and they were not always happy with his timing or quality, in one case even suspecting him of trying to run away with their money.


What I don't understand is the rationale behind this type of staking. Why would someone go through all that instead of simply playing a lower buy-in tournament and paying the full buy-in himself? A lower buy-in tournament or tournaments would be, at least theoretically, easier to win and the player would not have to spent time and energy to advertise for the stake, take care of financial transactions (Paypal even charges the recipient a fee, if I'm not mistaken) or report to any backers.


I understand staking for a player who is broke and a backer pays him the buy-ins in exchange for a percentage of his potential winnings until he gets back on his feet. It makes sense, the backer pays the stake recipient for his work at the poker table, and there is an incentive to play as well as possible since he receives a percentage of the winnings. But the type of staking I saw here on Cardschat trades a percentage of buy-in for the exact same percentage of the winnings, so all the extra work and responsibility for the stake recipient, besides the actual playing, is completely free. So again, why do all that instead of playing a lower buy-in?

Hi,
Primary reason is because of the difference in variance and level of play. For example; Cash Game, Micro stake of 2NL and 5NL is totally different from 10NL and 25NL.
When you play 2NL, you don't bluff very often because it's merely $2 max buyin, some player even buyin short with $0.80. Nowadays, a cup of coffee cost more than that kind of buyin. So if you bluff, they will just shove it all in even with mid-pair low kicker or even with nothing hoping to hit the miracle card.
But in 25NL, that's $25 buyin, that sum of money might be enough to buy you a 6 packs and a box of ciggy. People will not so maniac to shove you with nothing.

In MTT, for example a low buyin of $5.50 or $11. Same theory with Cash Game. When the buyin is small, the intense of play and variance are so much higher. You get to see tons of bingo player. Go take a look at those freeroll and freebuy series(ACR) and see how they play. Starting from level 1 to level 8, you will never get to see flop unless shove it all in.
But with low-mid stake, $55 and above, that's totally different story.
Open min raise, min 3bet, 1/2 pot bet and 3bet fold. You get to see this but not in micro-low stakes game.

Same goes for Live cash game. I play 5/10 with $4000 buy-in. Usually 6-8 hours per session. I don't get involve with many hands because i'm strictly ABC nit style of play but when i play with friend at home game at 1/2...i play like a LAG Hyper maniac with VPIP of almost 100%....lol

So to conclude, people ask for staking to play at slightly higher level is to upgrade themselves by lowering their variance, with concern of busting their bankroll.
Another factor is, with backers behind them, 'Responsibility' kick in. Any sensible player will know that Reputation is very very important. Nobody will want to lose the faith and trust of their backers thus putting their best performance.

Hope my 2 cents worth mean anything.
 
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zinzir

zinzir

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Hi,
Primary reason is because of the difference in variance and level of play. For example; Cash Game, Micro stake of 2NL and 5NL is totally different from 10NL and 25NL.
When you play 2NL, you don't bluff very often because it's merely $2 max buyin, some player even buyin short with $0.80. Nowadays, a cup of coffee cost more than that kind of buyin. So if you bluff, they will just shove it all in even with mid-pair low kicker or even with nothing hoping to hit the miracle card.
But in 25NL, that's $25 buyin, that sum of money might be enough to buy you a 6 packs and a box of ciggy. People will not so maniac to shove you with nothing.

In MTT, for example a low buyin of $5.50 or $11. Same theory with Cash Game. When the buyin is small, the intense of play and variance are so much higher. You get to see tons of bingo player. Go take a look at those freeroll and freebuy series(ACR) and see how they play. Starting from level 1 to level 8, you will never get to see flop unless shove it all in.
But with low-mid stake, $55 and above, that's totally different story.
Open min raise, min 3bet, 1/2 pot bet and 3bet fold. You get to see this but not in micro-low stakes game.

Same goes for Live cash game. I play 5/10 with $4000 buy-in. Usually 6-8 hours per session. I don't get involve with many hands because i'm strictly ABC nit style of play but when i play with friend at home game at 1/2...i play like a LAG Hyper maniac with VPIP of almost 100%....lol

So to conclude, people ask for staking to play at slightly higher level is to upgrade themselves by lowering their variance, with concern of busting their bankroll.
Another factor is, with backers behind them, 'Responsibility' kick in. Any sensible player will know that Reputation is very very important. Nobody will want to lose the faith and trust of their backers thus putting their best performance.

Hope my 2 cents worth mean anything.


Thank you for your detailed reply, I appreciate that.

I understand that having less people going all in pre flop reduces variance, but I don't know if that is a desirable thing, since the potential decrease of variance in this case is on the expense of facing more skilled opponents.

One of the fundamental and widely agreed upon concepts in poker is that it's easier to win against weaker opponents than stronger ones, regardless of your own skill level. So if playing a tougher field (higher buy in) has negative expectation compared to a weaker field (smaller buy in), than decreased variance is not a good thing, because it makes the occurrence of the negative outcome more reliable.

I also understand perfectly what you are saying about the great responsibility that is attached to having backers, but again, not sure that's necessarily a good thing for the player, I mean to worry at the table how his decision will look on the hand replay he has to post for the backers to see. In my opinion, that's more of a burden than a motivational thing.

Now, there are plenty of people involved in this type of staking, there is even a sub forum dedicated to it on CC, so it's only fair to say that the likelihood of me not understanding the benefits of this kind of staking is higher that the likelihood of the benefits not being there :), but I'm still quite puzzled.

Thanks again for your input, and if there is anything you'd like to add, please do, as it would be greatly appreciated.
 
GARCIA PABLO DANIEL

GARCIA PABLO DANIEL

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I think they want to take a leap of economic quality in the short term, but that leads to having pressures in the game and I think you start to suffer more than enjoy, share your analysis rely on someone else think that can wear down and finish bankrupt
 
oneybiggs

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I have found i take less gambles when being staked as its not only my game on the line.It keeps me serious and i find it rewarding to be able to turn a profit for someone.I also enjoy staking others ,especially if im on a downswing myself,plus i know theres been times when ive been right on the right mindset and energy levels but have no bankroll,its nice to know there may be someone willing to take a punt on me in that situation.I really enjoy the interaction with other CardsChat members too and dont stake anything im not prepared to lose so when anything comes back its a bonus,and we all have a significant win now n then so hoping to catch someone on one of those run-good days.I lost interest in the "buisiness" mentality a long time ago so for me its all about enjoying myself and helping other players to enjoy it amongst all the ups n downs.Gl.
 
zinzir

zinzir

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I enjoy staking players,,,,as long as it fits my poker budget,it's fun :)


I can see clearly the advantages of backing a stake with no markup, but you enjoy playing poker since you are a member of the freeroll club and playing the CC freerolls for a long time, so I think it's safe to say that you have more experience than the average CC player asking to be staked, so then why not play a tournament yourself with that money?
 
chilindrodolar

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You're right I believe the same thing, I prefer to play with my own silver, I believe that nobody is going to take care that more than another , that is my opinion on many people..!!!
 
zinzir

zinzir

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I have found i take less gambles when being staked as its not only my game on the line.It keeps me serious and i find it rewarding to be able to turn a profit for someone.I also enjoy staking others ,especially if im on a downswing myself,plus i know theres been times when ive been right on the right mindset and energy levels but have no bankroll,its nice to know there may be someone willing to take a punt on me in that situation.I really enjoy the interaction with other CardsChat members too and dont stake anything im not prepared to lose so when anything comes back its a bonus,and we all have a significant win now n then so hoping to catch someone on one of those run-good days.I lost interest in the "buisiness" mentality a long time ago so for me its all about enjoying myself and helping other players to enjoy it amongst all the ups n downs.Gl.


In my opinion, your thoughts make more sense then the other ideas presented here about reduced variance, donk avoidance and so on. As long as it makes you feel good and you can afford it, why not, I could't argue with that even if I wanted to. Just like drinking a glass of whiskey, it costs money, it's not necessarily good for one's health, but it makes us feel pretty good, so bottoms up, my friend, cheers to you!
 
terryk

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I can see clearly the advantages of backing a stake with no markup, but you enjoy playing poker since you are a member of the freeroll club and playing the CC freerolls for a long time, so I think it's safe to say that you have more experience than the average CC player asking to be staked, so then why not play a tournament yourself with that money?
Yes,your correct.I do play also and I enjoy giving others a chance to win some $$$ and they also gain valuable experience.I like to share,,,,it adds value to my life,,, :D
 
P86

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I have been staked many times on CC and it has been a great experience and lucky for me i was able to be profitable for backers of not all the times but more profits then loses over all.
I gained good experience playing MTTs i would have not been able to do it and you have the pressure not to disapoint which in my case is very helpfull when i'm playing and i make much better decisions compared to when i play my own money.
 
rj_montana

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I like the idea of staking but the problem is the honor system ...

Sure the player will honor the deal on a mincash or even a 3-4x return but on final table? You really expect them to transfer several thousand to your account?
 
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Just gotta invest nice like a true Buffet...
 
L

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The Chinese Buffet is my favorite :)

Haha I was just randomly making/spamming some posts on the forum cuz I needed the pass for freeroll on bcp... However I posted here in the past so I do have like 30 posts, or maybe that is threads started? Weird.
 
Zvezda kz

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The question is not for me)). I'm from the category that would ask for a bankroll for a game that will grow out of micro tournaments.
I can’t give money for the game, since I am from a poor country, and I don’t even have money to buy-in for tournaments with a small contribution.
But when I have money for micro-contributions, I give money to my comrades for tournaments. If they ask.
 
8bod8

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I have noticed several threads opened by people asking for staking, looking for backers. The sums of money were pretty modest and they wanted to trade a percentage of the buy-in in exchange for the same percentage of the potential winnings. They posted a description of their history highlighting their poker skills and personal worthiness. Also, after backers found, the player had to report to them about the playing, and they were not always happy with his timing or quality, in one case even suspecting him of trying to run away with their money.


What I don't understand is the rationale behind this type of staking. Why would someone go through all that instead of simply playing a lower buy-in tournament and paying the full buy-in himself? A lower buy-in tournament or tournaments would be, at least theoretically, easier to win and the player would not have to spent time and energy to advertise for the stake, take care of financial transactions (Paypal even charges the recipient a fee, if I'm not mistaken) or report to any backers.


I understand staking for a player who is broke and a backer pays him the buy-ins in exchange for a percentage of his potential winnings until he gets back on his feet. It makes sense, the backer pays the stake recipient for his work at the poker table, and there is an incentive to play as well as possible since he receives a percentage of the winnings. But the type of staking I saw here on Cardschat trades a percentage of buy-in for the exact same percentage of the winnings, so all the extra work and responsibility for the stake recipient, besides the actual playing, is completely free. So again, why do all that instead of playing a lower buy-in?

Simple: when getting staked, the variance goes down.
 
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neptun1914

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Main reason is to reduce variance. I personally am such type of player that hate to play with other people's money but for other people it is ok. There is market so obviously there is enough people who want to stake and be staked. :)
 
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