possible collusion??

pokerstars Game #40076785677: Tournament #245249858, $3.00+$0.25 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2010/02/20 21:22:42 ET
Table '245249858 1' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: Gemini Oz (2560 in chips)
Seat 4: wayschaff (2110 in chips)
Seat 5: paquidermo1 (3690 in chips)
Seat 6: tomasml (640 in chips)
wayschaff: posts small blind 75
paquidermo1: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wayschaff [3c 5d]
tomasml: raises 490 to 640 and is all-in
Gemini Oz: calls 640
wayschaff: folds
paquidermo1: raises 3050 to 3690 and is all-in
Gemini Oz: folds
Uncalled bet (3050) returned to paquidermo1
*** FLOP *** [Kd Kh 4s]
*** TURN *** [Kd Kh 4s] [3s]
*** RIVER *** [Kd Kh 4s 3s] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
paquidermo1: shows [2c 8d] (a pair of Kings)
tomasml: shows [5h Qh] (a pair of Kings - Queen kicker)
tomasml collected 1995 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1995 | Rake 0
Board [Kd Kh 4s 3s Jd]
Seat 2: Gemini Oz (button) folded before Flop
Seat 4: wayschaff (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: paquidermo1 (big blind) showed [2c 8d] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: tomasml showed [5h Qh] and won (1995) with a pair of Kings


this is the only hand i saw this happen on but it looks highly suspect.

PokerStars Game #40076107484: Tournament #245249700, $3.00+$0.25 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2010/02/20 21:03:40 ET
Table '245249700 1' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: wayschaff (1700 in chips)
Seat 2: namuxd (1410 in chips)
Seat 3: dperdi (1460 in chips)
Seat 4: Vinigol1704 (1540 in chips)
Seat 5: ELISA G. (1390 in chips)
Seat 6: essiees (1500 in chips)
wayschaff: posts small blind 10
namuxd: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wayschaff [Th 6h]
dperdi: folds
Vinigol1704: folds
ELISA G.: raises 20 to 40
essiees: raises 1460 to 1500 and is all-in
wayschaff: folds
namuxd: folds
ELISA G.: calls 1350 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (110) returned to essiees
*** FLOP *** [8h 4d As]
*** TURN *** [8h 4d As] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [8h 4d As 5c] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ELISA G.: shows [Kc Kd] (a pair of Kings)
essiees: shows [9h 3s] (high card Ace)
ELISA G. collected 2810 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2810 | Rake 0
Board [8h 4d As 5c 6s]
Seat 1: wayschaff (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: namuxd (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: dperdi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Vinigol1704 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: ELISA G. showed [Kc Kd] and won (2810) with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: essiees (button) showed [9h 3s] and lost with high card Ace


also thought this was wierd too

Weird. Suspicious looking - but some people do some crazy things I guess. If it were collusion I wanted to find, probably could make a better case for the 2nd one. Maybe in the first they just wanted heads up to try and catch a pair and take it down to knock out the player. The second almost looks as if they wanted to double up someone.

Maybe, but don't underestimate amazingly bad play at $3 buyins.

slycbnew said:

Maybe, but don't underestimate amazingly bad play at $3 buyins.

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I concur.

If it makes you feel any better, send it to PS support. They are excellent at taking these kind of inquiries and looking into possible collusion in a timely manner, not to mention actually emailing you back with the results of their findings.

Umm... those were all ins preflop from what I see... collusion is pretty impossible when they dont know what cards are coming.

Umm... those were all ins pre-flop from what I see... collusion is pretty impossible when they dont know what cards are coming.

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Not necessarily. Collusion could be possible in both hands, it doesn't matter what cards come, at least in the 1st hand. Chip dumping in the second hand is what Wayschaff is thinking...?

Both hands are odd, and collusion could be possible in both, but you'll see weird things like this pretty often with such a low buy in. You'd have to have past hand histories to know if the players frequently do this type of move on their own and or with certain players.
I's probably a very, very long shot that they enter a low buy-in online tourney attempting to collude, and actually end up at each others table, to begin with.

Sorry, don't see it. At this level both these plays are not unheard of. It takes more than one hand to show collusion.

The first post smells fishier (no pun) to me than the second. I see people make dumb all ins all the time with nothing at low buy ins.
First one ... idk. It's possible but as was mentioned preflop it's hard to determine the outcome and in a tourney it's even harder to wind up on the same table. I wouldn't worry about it.

Sean Pilgrim said:

Umm... those were all ins preflop from what I see... collusion is pretty impossible when they dont know what cards are coming.

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yeah, its a pretty standard chip-dump here, it looks like, a way inferior hand going all-in against a great hand to move the chips across.
thats how it loooks anyway.

Think about this....why would you waste your time chip dumping at a $3 Tourney. It's not like this level is incredibly profitable ....lol

Just looks like the first guy was going to shove any 2 becaues he had like 4 BB, the big stack bullied around the lone caller.


Nothing here at all.

If they're actually trying to collude in a $3 tournament they're probably not good enough to pull off successful collusion.

Cash games would probably be a better place to find people colluding.

collusion.