Poker is a net negative - discuss :)

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TheShek

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I posted this in my thread but wanted to post it here to generate some discussion.

I honestly don't know how people play poker as a profession. Perhaps people get lucky early on, decide it's a lot of fun and beats working for a living but then as the grind wears them down, they become unhappy. I don't see too many pro poker players who are genuinely happy, positive and upbeat people. They are often broody, snarky, abusive, and most likely depressed.

Most of the time it makes me feel unsatisfied. I do enjoy the game, but the reality is you will lose in tournaments most of the time, make a small amount of money some of the time, and win rarely. It's a recipe for depression. No wonder so many pro's say they will quit after a big score.


Maybe once upon a time, when most players were terrible, and people could make a significant amount of money and move up in stakes relatively easily, it made some people happy. But even back in those days, the majority of players were losing. Even as a recreational player, losing feels shitty.


I don't see much net positive that poker plays in people's lives. Other than a source of entertainment for those who can afford to lose, and a living for the very few who put in the time and effort to achieve that. I never recommend people play poker! I completely understand Dan Coleman's attitude after winning the Big One for One Drop. Players like Daniel Negreanu who try and steer people into the game and put this positive spin on it are morally bereft in my honest opinion. I discovered poker when I was having trouble working any longer, and initially hoped I could make some income from it but soon realise that's not possible for me. Although I did have a good run a few years ago on one particular site, and when I was winning I was enjoying playing more and could take the bad beats more easily, I was still aware that this game is not good for most people's mental health and their overall happiness in life.



 
Ragequit

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Some interesting points. I think though if you create a post on a forum which suggests that the forum's main topic is a net negative, you are likely to receive a reaction which steers away from your suggestion. I don't believe that Poker is a net negative. But I do believe that some people's approach to Poker and the way they fail to balance it with their own lives is a net negative.
 
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TheShek

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I think this forum is geared towards recreational players who want to play freerolls, and playing for recreation for free is fun. When you start to take it seriously and get into the grind, that's when you realise poker isn't that much fun.

Maybe I should change the headline to "playing poker for money is a net negative."
 
DougPkrMonsta

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Poker is a zero-sum game. You have written one perspective, but that is not how the players who put in the time to learn how to win consistently feel.

In reality playing for a living is like other jobs - those who skip getting training and experience aren't going to last.

Instead of getting fired if you are incompetent you lose your bankroll over and over until you learn or do something different.

Agree there are a lot of sour poker players, but that is a mindset that anyone can fall into, no matter the profession.
 
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509fio

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That is what is so appealing about poker. To be successful it requires the ultimate mental control. You are everything or nothing...a true rollercoaster. But if you work hard you can do it. I feel anyone can if they can be introspective and fix the leaks.
 
terryk

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Poker is fun,if it isn't,then you aint doin it right! :dancing2::ciao:
 
Joshua_Kane

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I think this forum is geared towards recreational players who want to play freerolls, and playing for recreation for free is fun. When you start to take it seriously and get into the grind, that's when you realise poker isn't that much fun.

Maybe I should change the headline to "playing poker for money is a net negative."



The beauty of poker is you get what you put into it.
 
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TheShek

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Fair points above....I was writing from one perspective which is why I opened the discussion. I don’t intend to make a living from this game, I don’t have the mental fortitude or the physical health for it. I guess I personally need more balance to enjoy it when I play and to feel motivated to learn and play my A game. Sometimes this game makes me very cynical.
 
infonazar

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If you do not like poker, then this is your choice.
Everyone has the right to decide for himself. For me personally, the game brings pleasure, so I will always play poker.
Good luck.
 
vov4ik

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I do not know how for other players, but for me poker is an excellent game in which I like to play-to get pleasure and sometimes to get though not a big profit but when players make a big poker deposit and later lose all the money and then think that poker only minus, I play more freerolls to win and then buy normal tournaments and try to win more, I do not put a lot of money into poker and for me there is no reason to speak in negative!
 
kraemer

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I would say that most of the frustration in poker is caused by
overestimating how profitable poker really is...


When You take a closer look at how much great players actually
expect to earn ( about 4 - 6 BB in cash games per 100 hands... )
then it gets pretty obvious that 99% of the people can not make a
living from poker because to make that happen You need to play
the high limits and almost noone has a bankroll that would enable him to play these levels... ( If You have enough money to play NL400 then You do not need to make a living playing poker... You already made a living then... )


You have to love the game... If You are in it for the money it is probably gonna be frustrating experience. Even if You could
afford to play NL200 ( You should have at least a $4000 bankroll to do so ) You would end up grinding all day long because You only earn around $10 per hour... that's less than You would make flipping burgers...
 
mange1234

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Good post. As a rule, Poker is boring and hard work. That is why, I only play for fun;in-addition to the fact that I am a poor player. One good point you made was that once upon a time, many or most players were poor players. But, with Forums like CardsChats and other resources to improve ones game;there are lots of good players out there.

I have notices that many players who play for low stakes, play money and freerolls are good players. This is easy to realize if one pays attention to how the players at the table plays.

Many pros say poker is hard work. And, I can understand why.

When it becomes enjoyable is playing small stakes, freerolls and players are social and friendly. And comment a lots. To me that is the fun.

mike
 
nitulbhatia

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Interesting perspective on poker. I tend to agree playing tournaments where u lose more often than you win tends to be not fun. Even cash games cost rake and can be costly. Ive stopped playing poker for these reasons. Im happy with my life not having ups and downs and swings with my bankroll.
 
bbennie1

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It sounds to me you were not playing for fun, but because of money. Then it shouldn't surprise you that it made you feel depressed. Perhaps poker is not something for you. Good luck to you.
 
neiroob

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Play freerolls for fun, if you can not play for money, I play freerolls because I'm interested in playing, and it's free.
 
MrPokerVerse

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Have to wrap you're head around that it is not result orientated. Sometimes the best you play, making the right calls, yields no results. Nature of the game and looking at it in a math context takes the emotion out.

Did I make the right call? Well mathematically yes, hand should win 70% of the time, it just didn't this time. Hardest part for me was separating the emotional element of not getting results indicative with making right decision. Knowing that, you should be profitable in the long run. Enough to make a living is a bigger question.
 
blueskies

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That's not true.

I think if I moved up stakes more I would probably be a loser, but at the stakes I play now I have never been a net loser on any poker site. I am not winning anything worthy of writing home about, but it's actually a net positive.

I don't play tourneys (except freerolls) because of variance and my luck is lousy. If I lose to a 4 outter in a cash game I can just rebuy. But if I lose to a 4 outter in a tourney, it can be the difference between cashing or wasting 3 hours of your life for nothing but anger.
 
TheNutz4You

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poker is fun to me, but to think I could make a living playing it is just a dream. 90% or more of the poker playing community lose money long term and that's a fact. losing players out number long term winners 10 to 1 imo.
 
makisaa

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I think that poker needs some factors so that to have positive results. It needs skills, psycology and it needs maths and luck. You must make your study at poker. When you just follow others you do not go anywhere. You need to take your path.
 
otzme

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Look, for me poker is about fun based on seizing opportunities, so those who make poker become a profession ends up losing the fun, true that there are many professional poker players that always appear smiling / happy but will be behind the lenses are like this? based on the losses that they have.
 
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I think that as poker was gaining fame .. and was being more recognized .. it was adding more people aljuego what there are many recreational and many that kles mother care to play well only join a table because they have a little dollars and they play whatever comes ... they have no notion of what they do and luck plays them in their favor.
 
teteuc2

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You have to know how to handle it. Taking poker as entertainment is a positive way to soften that sort of thing.
 
cazual88

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I do not know what about professional poker players. But I, for whom poker is only a hobby, I can confidently call myself a happy person. And I do not even imagine that professional poker players would lose too much money. After all, you do not need to be a professional to understand that you need to manage your bankroll.
 
bekel285

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If you don't like it don't play. I personally love the game and I make consistent profit from it. Like everyone else I dream of that big score someday but that's not what I play for day in day out.
 
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I'd say the swings in poker can be crippling to those who play outside of their bankroll range. If I play too much I lose patience. When it's fun its fun. When it sucks it really sucks
 
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