Please explain to my friends...

#1 September 15th, 2019, 8:12 PM

why poker isn't just a game of luck!

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle trying to explain why this isn't the case

#2 September 15th, 2019, 8:34 PM

Poker can be considered as a strategy and skill game as a game of chance. It is considered a game of chance because you could lose a winning hand on the river, in which case you were unlucky.

#3 September 15th, 2019, 8:35 PM

I'm still learning, but there's a lot of videos on youtube regarding the game of poker you could point your friends to. You're right that it's not just a game of luck, but chance or variance is a part of it.

From what I understand, the professionals have found a way to work with this variance so they're profitable over a long enough timeline. That timeline might vary from player to player but, again from what I understand, it's from playing millions of hands; countless hours...

In my limited experience, once you're able to quantify things (which many players have -- before us), the scope and impact of chance/variance starts to diminish. Not to mention, you can simply out-play an opponent and beat them.

In short, you're right. They're wrong. So keep playing and have fun! Please explain to my friends...

#4 September 15th, 2019, 8:43 PM

Originally Posted by dgellitson

why poker isn't just a game of luck!

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle trying to explain why this isn't the case

Sorry, I can't. It is very much a game of luck. Even in serious games, skill and knowledge will only get you so far. It will give you a hypothetical advantage, but 10% rivers (for the other guy) often happen when the timing is the worst and 2% rivers always seem to magically pop up (for the other guy) when you're seven hours into a tournament, the stakes are really high, you've cased the table perfectly, you've done the math backwards and forwards, and the only thing that can change the inevitable outcome is pure, unadulterated bad luck when that one and only one spoiler card drops.

#5 September 15th, 2019, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by MattRyder

Sorry, I can't. It is very much a game of luck. Even in serious games, skill and knowledge will only get you so far. It will give you an advantage, but 10% rivers (for the other guy) happen when the timing is the worst and 2% rivers always seem to magically pop up (for the other guy) when you're seven hours into a tournament, the stakes are really high, you've cased the table perfectly, you've done the math backwards and forwards.

I've had this pointed out before and I cant say its wrong or right. But as @bellicoso kindly pointed out, when you factor in variance over a big enough hand count these can easily be overcome. .

Btw where did you finish in last weeks freeroll? you bust me in 30 something place if I recall correctly... folded round to you in sb, you had a9 or something like that and put me all in, I called with 8's and was gone Please explain to my friends...

hopefully I'll fair better in this one

#6 September 15th, 2019, 8:54 PM

Originally Posted by dgellitson

I've had this pointed out before and I cant say its wrong or right. But as @bellicoso kindly pointed out, when you factor in variance over a big enough hand count these can easily be overcame. .

I used to think that too. The question is - how long are you willing/able to wait? The odds are calculated over an infinite timeframe. If you begin playing professionally and well at age 18 and steadily improve till you are 98, you're probably on the right side of the curve. Notice I said probably, not definitely. I don't have that many years left.

Why do I play then you ask? Well, I don't have any illusions about making a living at poker, slots or the lotteries.

#7 September 15th, 2019, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by dgellitson

Btw where did you finish in last weeks freeroll? you bust me in 30 something place if I recall correctly... folded round to you in sb, you had a9 or something like that and put me all in, I called with 8's and was gone Please explain to my friends...

hopefully I'll fair better in this one

If you're talking about the $1,000 one, I finished first. I won three hands that I shouldn't have and that 'luck' is what propelled me to the FT.

#8 September 15th, 2019, 9:13 PM

I've found the easiest way to explain it is to beat them consistently. Eventually, they'll get it.

#9 September 15th, 2019, 9:20 PM

we have several situations where we really know we have the best hand .. some situations that fit a game strategy .. and luck comes to complete the hand. study a little about the sport and don't give up! Gl !!

#10 September 16th, 2019, 12:32 AM

It's kinda feeling out the situations, seeing repetitions, seeing player tendencies and playing to those, and then you have to react to what hits the board. Of course it's luck to hitting your hand, but it's how you react to try to extract the most value.

#11 September 16th, 2019, 1:14 AM

Why the need to explain?

#12 September 16th, 2019, 9:06 AM

Hi.
There is no point in convincing others. The main thing you know is that it is true.
Good luck.

#13 September 16th, 2019, 9:08 AM

Well it is difficult to convince somebody who do not understand and is not interested in poker that it is not just pure gambling. You can show the main difference - that you play against people and not versus casino. Main proof though is in the pudding as they say. If your friends and family see that you play responsibly without loosing too much time and money and even better - if you win some money and show them they will accept it even if they do not understand the game.

#14 September 16th, 2019, 11:05 AM

I literally conclude an article that I just posted with that sentiment. It's discussed in section 4 and it might help you.

https://www.cardschat.com/f13/frustr...-guide-439934/

#15 September 16th, 2019, 11:32 AM

it will be hard to explain but here we go.
1) there are 52 cards in the deck so the chance of the randomly picked card to show up is ~2%. So lets say you pick Ace of spades there is a chance that the following card will be ace of spades 1 out of 50 outcomes. aka 2%
2) bet to pot ratio can determine whether you have greater or equal chance of winning or breaking even on the hand, In example you are on the turn and have 10 outs (20% of hitting the winning hand) and the opponent min bets 100 into 2k pot you make immediate profit right there, not even considering the implied odds of getting more chips by the river.

You prob could come up with more math based explanations like gto, though it will be even harder to explain

Hope this helps and Good Luck!

#16 September 16th, 2019, 1:33 PM

Luck undoubtedly plays a role but IMO a lousy player even with some lucky hits will never beat a good player over the long run. They just make too many poor decisions.

#17 September 16th, 2019, 1:40 PM

You could draw some parallels to success at sports or even business. Sure there is luck involved here and there but ultimately the skill that comes from practice and hard work makes some individuals better than others.

#18 September 16th, 2019, 2:17 PM

How it could be only a game of luck. It must me more complicated that's why it's so beatiful game.

#19 September 16th, 2019, 2:23 PM

It does seem that the general consensus is that there is a lot more to poker than just luck.

#20 September 16th, 2019, 3:24 PM

the ability to bluff someone into laying down the better hand, to me, makes the game more than just luck.

not that I have that ability Please explain to my friends...

#21 September 16th, 2019, 5:46 PM

Stop trying to explain to your friends that poker is not just a gamble because they cannot understand it unless they play this game to find out what kind of game it is!

#22 September 16th, 2019, 6:26 PM

Originally Posted by dgellitson

why poker isn't just a game of luck!

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle trying to explain why this isn't the case

Poker is not a game of luck.
Yesterday i won 888 poker CC freeroll. Twice before i was placed 3rd and 4th. Playing about 30 tournaments this year my results don't indicate that i am a good player. Does that mean that i was lucky on these three occasions? The answer is no. I was eliminated from other tournaments because i played wrong.
I think, poker is a game of mistakes. less mistakes you do, better will be your results.

#23 September 16th, 2019, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by sibird

Poker is not a game of luck.
Yesterday i won 888 poker CC freeroll. Twice before i was placed 3rd and 4th. Playing about 30 tournaments this year my results don't indicate that i am a good player. Does that mean that i was lucky on these three occasions? The answer is no. I was eliminated from other tournaments because i played wrong.
I think, poker is a game of mistakes. less mistakes you do, better will be your results.

Maybe you were eliminated from the other tournaments because you 'got it in good but just got unlucky'... or perhaps it was just a 'standard spot' where the correct play was to do what you did in those particular situations. Perhaps you were lucky on those three occasions... maybe just happened to be on the high side of variance Please explain to my friends...

OP, I've had some family & friends who acted VERY interested, asking me LOTS of questions (to which I went into detailed explanations about the game, explaining ev, odds & probabilities, how skilled players have an edge, etc. etc. etc.... trying to keep it simple enough for them to 'get it'). I thought they did but then they asked me if I counted the cards Please explain to my friends...

(as in blackjack... sigh)
One replied to me, "Yes I seem to be very lucky at the game too" Please explain to my friends...

sigh

#24 September 16th, 2019, 7:54 PM

Poker is a game of accident! Poker is a game of skill and no luck! The fact that the ACE fell on the river is an accident, not luck.

#25 September 27th, 2019, 6:11 PM

My friends asked similar questions. I always told them that poker is the same as chess. An incredibly large number of combinations that can and should be calculated

#26 September 27th, 2019, 6:25 PM

Poker is a game where LUCK has much to do.

But the ability to minimize the risk of losing is very important, and there are many factors to consider.
The ability to read the players actions/emotions, the ability to play the psicology of the game... when to bet, when to raise.. .and which tactic to use against each player...

POKER is much of a MIND game, with LUCK always going around.

#27 September 27th, 2019, 6:27 PM

poker is like war no matter how many soldiers there sometimes the best extra-win wins and sometimes depends on luck

#28 September 27th, 2019, 7:30 PM

Tell your friends that it�s possible to successfully do one thing: roll a die. Only poker consists of many factors. This is a mathematical analysis, intuition, mood, motivation, discipline, dealer move, bet and the decision of other players and this is all poker. Please explain to my friends...

#29 September 27th, 2019, 7:36 PM

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]I think poker is 70% lucky and 30% skill, with no luck you won't be out in a game soon.[/COLOR]

#30 September 27th, 2019, 7:38 PM

im with them!!!! its luck but you got to know how to play!! but in the end its luck!!!

#31 September 27th, 2019, 7:59 PM

Originally Posted by dgellitson

why poker isn't just a game of luck!

I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle trying to explain why this isn't the case

Poker is a game of reason, but without luck, you never win, so I figure it's 50/50.

#32 September 27th, 2019, 8:02 PM

However, what form of explanation would it be tempting to explain with some tem several world poker tournaments and is always high, will it be that the greatest draw is the strategy learned?

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