Playing poker for free is illegal

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TrapStar

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Playing Poker for FREE Illegal!!!!!

Yes it’s true. Not only in New York, but in as many as 30 other states it is ILLEGAL for you and your friends to sit down and play a friendly game of Poker even if there is NO MONEY involved.

Throughout this great country many states allow what is referred to as “bar or tavern” poker. In this game you join a poker league at a local “sponsor” (bar, tavern, restaurant, etc.) then compete on a weekly basis for prizes ranging from merchandise to cash to entry into major tournaments such as the World Series of Poker. The tournaments are for entertainment purposes only and entry into the league and tournaments is FREE. Players begin each session of play with an equal amount of tournament chips and are never charged a fee of any kind to play. The player risks nothing and can loose nothing.

The New York State Penal Code (§ 225) states that playing any game wherein you risk “something of value” is gambling. The State further defines “something of value” as anything “…involving extension of a service, entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge.” This law makes it illegal to play in or sponsor a FREE poker tournament where there is no entry fee of any kind and absolutely no risk of loss to the player. Further, in the State of New York any “sponsor” would be promoting gambling and subject to having their liquor license suspended.
If this standard was applied evenly and fairly any competitive game played for entertainment (i.e. bridge, volleyball, bowling, darts, etc.) would be gambling. Unfortunately that is not the case as poker is singled out as gambling while all other competitive games are allowed to be played.

Our position is simple. If you pay nothing to play, have no risk and can lose nothing then there is no gamble.

We have filed an action in the Supreme Court of the State of New York, County of New York (case No.: 650328/2008) claiming that the law, as written and applied is unconstitutional and a violation of the 14th Amendment of the United States Constitution calling for equal protection under the law. If you ban FREE poker then you must ban all FREE games wherein the player can win “something of value.”

We are fighting the Government to protect your right to play FREE Poker. To win we need strong, vocal support and active involvement from you, the poker playing public. With this in mind, I urge you to support our action by writing letters to the Court and sending them to The FREE Poker Experience for use in the litigation process.
There is nothing more important that you, the poker playing public can do to promote and defend the great game of poker then to help us help you in defending the great game of poker.

? Ensure that your poker voice is heard loud and clear!
? Join the fight and help protect America’s card game!
? Defend poker and your Constitutional rights!
? Poker is the great American card game it is not a crime!

This is a critical time for poker. The momentum we build with our success in the New York State Courts will carry over throughout the country to all 31 states that use the “something of value” argument.

We are not a large national organization with millions of dues paying members. We are regular people who believe that it is time that the “average Joe” stands up and fights for his rights.

Benjamin Scheck
FREE Poker Experience, LLC
P. O. Box 66738 #17440, Saint Louis, Missouri 63166-6738
Phone: (631) 512-7405 Fax: (314) 754-8386
E-mail: freepokerexperience@gmail.com
 
Mortis

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The New York State Penal Code (§ 225) states that playing any game wherein you risk “something of value” is gambling. The State further defines “something of value” as anything “…involving extension of a service, entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge.” This law makes it illegal to play in or sponsor a FREE poker tournament where there is no entry fee of any kind and absolutely no risk of loss to the player. http://us.mc579.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=freepokerexperience@gmail.com

Guess that means playing all board games including Monopoly, Trouble, and Chutes & Ladders is illegal in New York as well.
 
garenka

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Unless if they are doing an undercover sting operation where they simply bust down your doors for playing in your own house then your gonna be ooooook :) now smoking on the other hand!..
 
Divebitch

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Playing Poker for FREE Illegal!!!!!

The New York State Penal Code (§ 225) states that playing any game wherein you risk “something of value” is gambling. The State further defines “something of value” as anything “…involving extension of a service, entertainment or a privilege of playing at a game or scheme without charge.”

We have filed an action in the Supreme Court of the State of New York

We are not a large national organization with millions of dues paying members. We are regular people who believe that it is time that the “average Joe” stands up and fights for his rights.

Benjamin Scheck
FREE Poker Experience, LLC
P. O. Box 66738 #17440, Saint Louis, Missouri 63166-6738
Phone: (631) 512-7405 Fax: (314) 754-8386
E-mail: freepokerexperience@gmail.com

Well, good on ya!! This law is the biggest crock of crap I've seen in a long time, if ever. You can't play for 'entertainment value'!??? WTF does anyone play anything for (they need to look up the definition of 'play', they might find 'fun'), especially when there is no money involved? There are trivia and other games on the NTN Network ( http://www.ntn.com/) , played in bars across the country that offer prizes. I love QB1.

They know from the get that they never intend to prosecute for ANYTHING other than poker. Bastards. They shouldn't get away with this, strictly on principle, even if I were against gambling, legally or otherwise. And that 'privilege' thing, I can't even guess what that means.

If you can think of anything else we can do (aside from the obvious legal fees), please post.
 
Dika82

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Hmm really intersting posts, I didn't hear about this at all, I'm very surprised... playing poker for FREE is ILLEGAL??? WTF? :eek:
 
RogueRivered

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In their infinite wisdom, they are trying to protect you from yourself again. God forbid you get hooked on the game and try to go a step further and play for, gulp, money.
 
RogueRivered

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To add, everybody knows that the only legitimate thing to spend your money on is the lottery and horse races, things that are controlled and taxed. So, is this really about protecting you, or protecting them?
 
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ChurchSkiz

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I actually didn't believe this (sounded like a scheme to me), so I researched NY state penal law 225 and the info represented above is a little over the top.

Section 225.00 Gambling offenses; definitions of terms
The following definitions are applicable to this article:
1. "Contest of chance" means any contest, game, gaming scheme or gaming device in which the outcome depends in a material degree upon an element of chance, notwithstanding that skill of the contestants may also be a factor therein.
2. "Gambling." A person engages in gambling when he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.

The "something of value" factor only applies to contests of chance. So bowling, volleyball, darts, would in no way be illegal because they do not rely on an element of chance.
 
RogueRivered

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The "something of value" factor only applies to contests of chance. So bowling, volleyball, darts, would in no way be illegal because they do not rely on an element of chance.

Almost any sport contains an element of chance, especially if the contestants have similar amounts of skill. I think that's why the best baseball teams barely win more than 6 out of 10 games. Sure, the players have a lot of skill, but in any given game, chance plays a big part. It really wouldn't be that interesting to watch if there weren't some doubt about the outcome.

I can see why some poker proponents have taken the "game of skill" approach -- to try to combat the preconceived bias that poker must be gambling.

I wonder what the original intent of this New York law was. No doubt something to do with state revenues or spending.
 
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BostonRobber

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I doubt NY States motivations are of moral grounding. Their paramount interest is likely in how to tax online gaming. Given the current economic environment some compromise here would probably take care of the issue. My cable company, for example, has to pay my town to operate here, gaming operators could pay a license fee to pander to New Yorkers in similar fashion. NY gets free money. Politicians like free money I think, at least in Illinois.
 
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diamondace

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its about taxes and not about gambling. if you wanna play poker then you should have the right to do so. whats with liberalism and freedom? all blown away? to me these are really kind of ridiculous laws just repressing people.
 
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Almost any sport contains an element of chance, especially if the contestants have similar amounts of skill. I think that's why the best baseball teams barely win more than 6 out of 10 games. Sure, the players have a lot of skill, but in any given game, chance plays a big part. It really wouldn't be that interesting to watch if there weren't some doubt about the outcome.

I can see why some poker proponents have taken the "game of skill" approach -- to try to combat the preconceived bias that poker must be gambling.

I wonder what the original intent of this New York law was. No doubt something to do with state revenues or spending.

You are going to have a hard time proving that the element of chance in any sport plays a "marginal degree" in the outcome of the event. The chance involved in sports is not randomized, it is an illusion to the audience. The only real chance involved in a sporting event, would be things outside the athlete's control, such as wind speed, weather conditions, etc.

The intent of the law is to do exactly what the OP was looking to legalize: tavern poker and it's equivalent. If they don't spell this out, you could set up a "free" poker team that rewards the winner with "a gift". This legislation eliminates any loopholes with gambling. NY wants to make sure that people don't play games of chance with the possibility to win something, regardless of an entry fee.
 
RogueRivered

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You are going to have a hard time proving that the element of chance in any sport plays a "marginal degree" in the outcome of the event.

You mean "material degree." Yeah, I'm sure you're right. It would be hard to prove, but I see it all the time when I watch. The ball takes some funny bounces and many times the outcome of the game rests on it, i.e. "It's a game of inches." That seems "material" to me.

Here's an interesting law I found in Washington state, defining "material degree" of skill; not sure about applying it to chance:

Material degree of skill required in amusement games.


Amusement game operators must conduct games in which the outcome depends to a material degree on the skill of the player. We consider a "material degree of skill" to be present when both of these requirements are met:

(1) The player's physical or mental abilities play an important and integral role in determining the outcome of the game; and

(2) The success rate of the average player would improve with repeated play or practice.

Sounds like poker to me.
 
Mortis

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Oral sex is also illegal in 17 states plus Washington DC... but I don't think that stops anyone.

In case anyone is wondering, the following states are:

Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia and Washington D.C.
 
The Shrog

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Oral sex is also illegal in 17 states plus Washington DC... but I don't think that stops anyone.

In case anyone is wondering, the following states are:

Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Virginia and Washington D.C.

But somehow Mr. Clinton gets away with it...sheesh.
 
1fernandez1

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im more surprised about that oral sex law.....like most of you were saying its about making money off of doing nothing and that is what our goverment has become so its no surprise to me...it some state out west it is a class 2 felony to play online poker.....horrible what the once great
U.S.A. has become
 
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Mystroman

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It would be hard to think that a freindly game would bring possible police action, who knew. I guess we are all trouble makers.
 
thetaxman1

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beer, pot , poker, cigarettes, oral sex america is a free country ha.
 
TheseNutsWin

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THE LAND OF THE FREE... lol I always lol at people who tell me AMERICA IS GREAT BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH FREEDOM... I live in New York but i used to live in EUROPE and i can tell you that I USED TO have more FREEDOM in EUROPE then in here... The amount of DUMB little laws here is sick.. Well thats what i get for living in USA.. I still wont leave this place unless one day i'll win few mills of $$ then i`ll probably move to Italy.
 
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gadgetfiddler

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wow, i didn't know about the oral sex law. My girlfriend and i have been breaking the law for years. even in public.
 
woody19

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wow

didnt no that it was illegal 2 play poker with me m8s 4 illegal ow well
looks like il be breaking the law
 
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