Phil Ivey.

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hawtshawt420

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It seems like most people would easily put Phil Ivey as the best poker player there is. Seems like average players admire him the most. I do give a lot of respect to his game and agree that he is arguably the best player but I'm wondering what he does that makes him clearly better than other pros.

My personal fave is negreanu. He obvious having fun, shows the watchers he knows what he's talking about and gets his reads pretty damn close nearly every time (could be editing but whatever). Ivey is quiet and collects info and plays well but he's not doing anything that many of the pros do too. I can understand if you think negreanu, mouth, or helmuth are annoying but they get those same reads/plays. even the quiet ones like jesus or gordon or annie duke do things the same. I just don't get why Ivey seems to be hands down the best player, according to average players. Am I missing something about his game that puts him that much further than anyone?
 
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I think part of it is too, that its said he plays every game well. Many top-flight pros are specialists, or at best, only play a few different games. Ivey, from what I've heard is world-class in every game or nearly every game.
 
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hawtshawt420

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Aggression

This would make sense if it wasn't what a lot of pro's do. I'm trying to understand what sets him apart in the eyes of the public. Since most pro's would probably be considered aggressive, what makes him different than the other pros?

I think part of it is too, that its said he plays every game well. Many top-flight pros are specialists, or at best, only play a few different games. Ivey, from what I've heard is world-class in every game or nearly every game.

This makes sense if it's true. I could see some of his admiration coming from a full complete poker game.
 
OzExorcist

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I think part of it is too, that its said he plays every game well. Many top-flight pros are specialists, or at best, only play a few different games. Ivey, from what I've heard is world-class in every game or nearly every game.

^ this. He crushes in pretty much every game, cash and tournaments, live and online. That's probably the biggest aspect.
 
LombardiStix

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^ this. He crushes in pretty much every game, cash and tournaments, live and online. That's probably the biggest aspect.

He's put there because of this and his obv name recognition. It also doesnt hurt that he is great reading. He was also the face of the biggest US market poker company for a while.
 
OzExorcist

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I guess a follow on from that too is his apparent willingness to play those games against anyone, anytime, for the highest stakes - it's not like he's crushing by only playing against whales.
 
Poker Orifice

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I just don't get why Ivey seems to be hands down the best player, according to average players. Am I missing something about his game that puts him that much further than anyone?
First thing you're missing is: 'according to average players' < this comment is simply not true. Ivey is considered the best amongst his peers (the best think he's the best).
What else are you missing.... imo an avg. player won't even be able to see the things they're missing seeing (if you know what I mean).
What else... hmm... maybe his ability to adjust to opponents (but what do I know... I'm a donk)
 
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Ivey is on a level with the best players in the world in every game, which is just remarkable.
 
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hawtshawt420

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First thing you're missing is: 'according to average players' < this comment is simply not true. Ivey is considered the best amongst his peers (the best think he's the best).
What else are you missing.... imo an avg. player won't even be able to see the things they're missing seeing (if you know what I mean).
What else... hmm... maybe his ability to adjust to opponents (but what do I know... I'm a donk)

No, no. It is true as I didn't say what his peers thought (since I don't know). the average player definitely thinks of Ivey as the best. Go to any micro table and just ask "Who's the best pro" and a majority will say Ivey. So my comment is simply true. If they come to that opinion by just getting a feel for what other pro's think and blindly accept that then fine that's where they get it from. That's completely understandable. The last part about adjusting to his opponents is sort of an answer since you're telling me something he does well, but there are tons of pros who do that and do it well so you obviously didn't understand the question. Thanks for trying.


To everyone saying it's because He plays every game very well and is willing to play anyone in each game seems like the best answer. Thanks guys.
 
Poker Orifice

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, but there are tons of pros who do that and do it well so you obviously didn't understand the question.
I guess he does it better, lol
To everyone saying it's because He plays every game very well and is willing to play anyone in each game seems like the best answer.
You liked that better than the fact that his peers consider him to be the best?
 
LuckyChippy

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lol you sound like a bit of a nob but here's the simple answer. What all the pros do well, he does better. It's not rocket science.
 
MediaBLITZ

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lol you sound like a bit of a nob but here's the simple answer. What all the pros do well, he does better. It's not rocket science.
Exactly - to compare Ivey's agression to "other pros" - well it would make Hellmuth laugh.
To say the reason I'vey is so good is because he's good at all the games is like saying he's good because he's good.
He's good because he is scary - take the single top attribute of any pro and Ivey possesses it on at least an equal measure.
Chris Ferguson is considered the most impossible to read but I would maintain Ivey is every bit as hard to read - maybe more so when you add trying to put him on a range.
Ivey has all the practical applicable poker math skills of Bill Chen.
Ivey can read an opponent as well or better than Hellmuth or Negreanu.
Nerves of steel - there is no equal.
Get in your head - Tony G has nothing on Ivey.
Add to that the hype of poker commentators continually telling us he's the best in the world.
But having said that - some young guns are catching up. Ivey's rep, like Hellmuth and many others, is based on what poker was. Poker is now Dwan, Mercier, Lamb - there'll be a new sheriff in town in a few shart years and my money is on Mercier.
 
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Yes I do like the answers that answer the question I asked. I asked "What make him better" your smug response is "duh the pro's said it" they didn't say what he does better? or why he does it better? or why you should blindly follow that opinion and not get anything from it. You answer "why is he better" with basically "he just is" So yes thanks to everyone who answered the question by telling me he is universally competitive. Looking through this board 9 times out of 10 your comments have some sort of sarcastic or smug remark that doesn't help anyone and makes you look like a d-bag.
 
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hawtshawt420

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Exactly - to compare Ivey's agression to "other pros" - well it would make Hellmuth laugh.
To say the reason I'vey is so good is because he's good at all the games is like saying he's good because he's good.
He's good because he is scary - take the single top attribute of any pro and Ivey possesses it on at least an equal measure.
Chris Ferguson is considered the most impossible to read but I would maintain Ivey is every bit as hard to read - maybe more so when you add trying to put him on a range.
Ivey has all the practical applicable poker math skills of Bill Chen.
Ivey can read an opponent as well or better than Hellmuth or Negreanu.
Nerves of steel - there is no equal.
Get in your head - Tony G has nothing on Ivey.
Add to that the hype of poker commentators continually telling us he's the best in the world.
But having said that - some young guns are catching up. Ivey's rep, like Hellmuth and many others, is based on what poker was. Poker is now Dwan, Mercier, Lamb - there'll be a new sheriff in town in a few shart years and my money is on Mercier.

Thank you for anwsering the question and not sounding like a smug jackass while doing it.
 
fletchdad

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Looking through this board 9 times out of 10 your comments have some sort of sarcastic or smug remark that doesn't help anyone and makes you look like a d-bag.

And this makes you look like........ what?

You dont have to agree, but you dont have to be a douche bag by calling ppl a douche bag....


Pot, kettle.. and all that......
 
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hawtshawt420

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And this makes you look like........ what?

You dont have to agree, but you dont have to be a douche bag by calling ppl a douche bag....


Pot, kettle.. and all that......

Wasn't talking to you first of all. Paranoid much? Secondly, it wasn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It was a smug response that didn't even attempt to answer the question. It may have inflated his own ego, I don't know. I just can't think of anything else his comment would accomplish. But way to ride on his coat tails like some lackey.


Theres is a definite divide on this forum. One side has most of the new posters and friendly regulars who actually use the forum for what it's intended to be for. The other is a cliquish smug side that doesn't contribute anything than raising their own post number. (Not saying if you have 1000's of posts you are smug and participate in the clique, just that the ones in the clique are pretty smug and think EVERYONE is below them) There's also those that seem like they want so badly to be in that clique but just aren't quite there. commenting with post that say no more than "Yeah! I would never be caught in that situation either" and other useless posts.
 
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Ivey is intimidating

He knows what other players at the table think of him, they are scared, and he uses this to his advantage. Lots of famous pros claim that amateurs will go all out against them in tournaments just to have a story to tell in the games back home. This leads to a lot of bad beats and eventual pro knockouts. Ivey seems to be above this due to his intimidating image; I think this sets him apart.
 
fletchdad

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Wasn't talking to you first of all. Paranoid much? Secondly, it wasn't a matter of agreeing or disagreeing. It was a smug response that didn't even attempt to answer the question. It may have inflated his own ego, I don't know. I just can't think of anything else his comment would accomplish. But way to ride on his coat tails like some lackey.


Theres is a definite divide on this forum. One side has most of the new posters and friendly regulars who actually use the forum for what it's intended to be for. The other is a cliquish smug side that doesn't contribute anything than raising their own post number. (Not saying if you have 1000's of posts you are smug and participate in the clique, just that the ones in the clique are pretty smug and think EVERYONE is below them) There's also those that seem like they want so badly to be in that clique but just aren't quite there. commenting with post that say no more than "Yeah! I would never be caught in that situation either" and other useless posts.

Naw, man, I wasnt takin it personally. What I meant was, yea, its ok to think what you want. But dont toss the d-bag name around. That was pretty much it. You commented on someones tone then used this kinda comment. Your response woulda had a lot more merit had you not stooped to making this kinda name calling. Ya know???

Paranoid?? Me?? lol. no, but they still might be after me, who the fk knows...
 
-Phil Ivey27

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Pro's are great at reading their opponents and outplaying them.

He is great at reading how these pro's would like to outplay him and outplays THEM.

On top of that, exactly what others have said above.. He is world class in many different variations of poker, he is considered by his peers to be the best. Also, considering the amount of bracelets and high stakes success at his age, he practically earns this title.

He will play anyone, anywhere, for any amount of money, is rarely outplayed, makes sick reads, and can never go broke no matter what game he chooses to play due to his great success.
 
OzExorcist

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To say the reason I'vey is so good is because he's good at all the games is like saying he's good because he's good.

...

But having said that - some young guns are catching up. Ivey's rep, like Hellmuth and many others, is based on what poker was. Poker is now Dwan, Mercier, Lamb - there'll be a new sheriff in town in a few shart years and my money is on Mercier.

I disagree on that first point - the fact that Ivey can beat every game isn't the same as saying he's "good because he's good".

Take the other players you mentioned - Dwan, Mercier and Lamb. They're excellent NLHE and PLO players and they're certainly aggressive (Dwan in particular may be even more so than Ivey in big bet games). But they don't play every game - which is why Ivey was willing to offer Dwan such insane odds on the HORSE cash game challenge last year that got killed by Black Friday (and may not have even happened anyway).

Actually, I think that challenge really sums it up: Ivey was laying Dwan something like 25:1 on a long-term series of HORSE cash games and it wasn't a snapcall for Dwan. He acknowledged that Ivey is a huge favourite in all those games.

The question that was asked at the top of the thread was why so many people consider Phil Ivey to be the best poker player in the world. Poker is more than just NLHE and PLO - if you asked who the best NLHE player is in the world it'd probably be a much closer decision and while Ivey would certainly be near the top, he won't necessarily be number one on everybody's lists. But when you broaden it to poker in general, which encompasses all games and all formats, the list of potential number ones gets a lot smaller until Ivey is about the only one left.

FWIW if I had to pick a runner up it'd be Barry Greenstein.
 
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I agree on negreanu. He's one of my the guys that I study and learn from. Ivey is over rated....
 
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