Opinions on river wins

Just a quick question that just came to my mind..what do you think about river wins ? more importantly do you depend on the river ? I say this because i messed around and got a 10 on the river whilst going all in with A/J while person B had K/J *board read Q/J/K/9/10 i believe* potentially called a donk for it but *here is the other question your supposed to answer*..why? person was short stacked so i pushed all in *i believe...its hazy right now*..isnt it all just gambling in the end ? cant say too much about odds since i have a slight case of readers block.What im trying to ask is..was play bad?

Answers to questions plleassee..brutally honest..tips on how to play that better...or worse..whatever.

-G

It's hard to tell - do you have the actual hand history? Stack sizes, position, how and when the money went in, reads, they're all important if you want a meaningful answer.

As to relying in the river... in general, if you regularly find yourself hoping for a card on the river that completes your gutshot or whatever, you're probably going to be losing money. You certainly don't want to make relying on catching a river card the cornerstone of your strategy.

I agree with Oz. If you need the river more often then not, it's not good. However, if the person you put out was short stacked and you pushed all in to knock someone out and it happened that you got the card you needed on the river, there's nothing really wrong with that play. Now had you called a series of bets all the way to the river only to catch that card, that's a different story...

Pushing in may have been a good move depending on the players table image and other variables that were not mentioned. But lucking out on the river is not considered good play.

In this case you made a questionable play and were off on your read of this situation. You got lucky. Luck comes and goes. Skill will take you to the next level.

I would suggest not depending on the River.
It's a good way to loose your chips unless the odds are in your favor.


Granted you won and a win is a win.

You asked for honesty.

Good luck

It's hard to tell without the HH, but I'll answer your initial two questions:

What do I think of river wins?

Well, that depends. If the winner chased a flush without odds or landed a the case 5 for a set or hit his gutshot, then I can't wait for the next opportunity to stack them when they do it again with no success. If I gave them proper odds then I know I need to alter my play and bet more.

If the winner was trying to pull off a sophisticated (at least in their mind) play and wound up striking gold, then eh.. it's poker.

Same applies when I'm the winner. Did I have odds? If yes, great. If not, then I got lucky, but need to adjust before I go broke. Sometimes I'll orchestrate a bluff with a pocket pair and wind up rivering a set. On the surface it may look donkish, but there are times when I'll be legitimate.

For your second question, whether I depend on it, I say:

It depends. Again. You'll hear that a lot in vague poker discussions. After I see the flop, I'm looking at %71.4 of my hand. Without odds or reads, I'm not going much further.

It is hard to tell, did the short stack have enough chips to hurt your stack, if not i say pushing there is the right move no matter the two cards in your hand. It is all a numbers game when asking that kind of question not really what your cards are.

I dont think that you made a good poker move, you got extremlely lucky. and that poor sucker is probably still smashing his fas with the keyboard. lol But we win, and we lose sometimes. this time you won

OzExorcist said:

It's hard to tell - do you have the actual hand history? Stack sizes, position, how and when the money went in, reads, they're all important if you want a meaningful answer.

As to relying in the river... in general, if you regularly find yourself hoping for a card on the river that completes your gutshot or whatever, you're probably going to be losing money. You certainly don't want to make relying on catching a river card the cornerstone of your strategy.

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I wish i did have a history to give you ..*noob at the copy paste post thing..gonna go read on that now* as for stack sizes mine was pretty healthy *like 4 or 5k or so* while person B was only at 1.6k i dont think thats enough to mentally hurt me if i lost that hand.

Person B made continuation bets after the flop and on the turn in attempts to make me fold...i reraised his turn bet hoping i could bluff him into thinking i had something serious but that didnt turn out too well. Also thank you and everyone else for your feedback as it helps me greatly.

I rarely ever play to the river. If I dont have a strong hand on the flop I hardly chase to the river. Consiquently I also try to make farely sizable bets to keep my opponent from doing the same thing. I am not saying Ive never chased to the river because if Ive got someones stack completely dominated there is no harm in it.

This is a very interesting question... and there have been many a times that i have chased straights or flushes to win hands...we all have. And we all have read the chat box following the hand to read all the four letter words. But last time I checked...a texas holdem hand consisted of 7 cards. That river card is a part of everyone hands, and people act like you have no right to win on a card that is part of your hand. The problem isnt winning on the river, the problem today is the lack of sportmanship. I will agree that chasing a river card to complete a hand will cause you to lose majority of the time, but big pots are usually won on the river...and you must admit, IT IS FUN TO PUT YOUR OPPONENT ON TILT! =)

IMO, River = Variance

I will never fold until I see the river card, I always have that last shot of winning!

jordanbillie said:

I will never fold until I see the river card, I always have that last shot of winning!

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Lmfao U must be joking right?

If you fold you win 0% of the time. Even a 1-outer on the turn you have over 2% chance of winning. So calling gives you the win infinitely more times than folding, why would you ever fold unless you're confident you are drawing dead?

zachvac said:

If you fold you win 0% of the time. Even a 1-outer on the turn you have over 2% chance of winning. So calling gives you the win infinitely more times than folding, why would you ever fold unless you're confident you are drawing dead?

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Level?

garenka said:

Person B made continuation bets after the flop and on the turn in attempts to make me fold...<snip>

I don't think he wanted to make you fold but believed he had the better hand here and bet on it....

i reraised his turn bet hoping i could bluff him into thinking i had something serious but that didnt turn out too well.

...maybe he was waiting for you to do just that.

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Generally I want to be sure enough about my hand that I don't need help on the river.