NY Times on Online Poker, Youse Kids and Mom

This just came in. Any comments? Good article I thought...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/28/magazine/28Poker-t.html?pagewanted=1&tntemail1=y&emc=tnt

Who is her son?

Had read this article earlier today and put it in a tweet

Excellent and Interesting observations from a parent going through the problems of discovering her son is playing online poker so much it affects school, life, relationships --but it is making him lots of money

Nice

Wow that was an awesome read. Maybe that will help our cause. If people like that mom can come to accept poker as more than gambling then maybe our government will also. Thanks for the read I really enjoyed it. If you come across any more articles like that please post them thanks

I thot peeps would be upset she hacked his account, but moms will be moms... I bet there are a lot of members here who are hding from their parents like our hero, or watching their kids like the villain mom... but ya she presents a pretty balanced argument after her research...

BTW mkra is tryin:joyman: 0100011100011 :joyman:

Really good read. The article shines some great perceptive on how my mother probably thinks about my poker playing.

Really gives you a good perspective from the concerned parents side about how they are feeling. We always hear tons of these online phenoms talk in interviews about how originally their parents wern't happy and how they really shocked them when they dropped out of school. Now we get to hear about the emotions a parent went through. Very interesting.

Makwa said:

I thot peeps would be upset she hacked his account, but moms will be moms... I bet there are a lot of members here who are hding from their parents like our hero, or watching their kids like the villain mom... but ya she presents a pretty balanced argument after her research...

BTW mkra is tryin:joyman: 0100011100011 :joyman:

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Wow that mom is a sneaky creeper for doing that account jacking to her son, my mom would find such a violation of privacy inexcusable.

I mean, she doesnt bug me "oh how much did you lose??" etc every day, if I choose to tell her what I win/lose every day then... great. Even if I didnt tell her the details of what I win, she would be fine with that too as long as I had some sort of income.

Now if this kid was a badly losing player I could see his parents interfering and stopping him because clearly he is a losing player with a gambling issue, why didnt she just see his full tilt account balance and say "Wow $12,000, hes doing a good job." Nahhhhh.

Monoxide said:

Wow that mom is a sneaky creeper for doing that account jacking to her son, my mom would find such a violation of privacy inexcusable.

I mean, she doesnt bug me "oh how much did you lose??" etc every day, if I choose to tell her what I win/lose every day then... great. Even if I didnt tell her the details of what I win, she would be fine with that too as long as I had some sort of income.

Now if this kid was a badly losing player I could see his parents interfering and stopping him because clearly he is a losing player with a gambling issue, why didnt she just see his full tilt account balance and say "Wow $12,000, hes doing a good job." Nahhhhh.

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Speaking from personal experience, some people (and parents) view poker as gambling, pure and simple. Some people have a huge aversion to gambling period, and therefore even if you are winning on a regular basis and doing well can still not comprehend that it can be a profitable source of income. They are also worried that eventually you will "lose it all" and turn to desperate means. It is what it is.

Monoxide said:

Wow that mom is a sneaky creeper for doing that account jacking to her son, my mom would find such a violation of privacy inexcusable.

I mean, she doesnt bug me "oh how much did you lose??" etc every day, if I choose to tell her what I win/lose every day then... great. Even if I didnt tell her the details of what I win, she would be fine with that too as long as I had some sort of income.

Now if this kid was a badly losing player I could see his parents interfering and stopping him because clearly he is a losing player with a gambling issue, why didnt she just see his full tilt account balance and say "Wow $12,000, hes doing a good job." Nahhhhh.

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And secondly, I agree that seeing $12,000 balance should be a good thing, but unless you know how much $ was put in to get to that balance, no reference point. You would assume someone didn't deposit more then that, but without that piece of info I could see someone assuming the worst...

Well the kid isnt just going to have $12000 to deposit, so honestly lets run thru the possibilities.

Borrowed money, is a random person going to loan a 20 year old thousands of $$$ to play poker online? Did the parents give him money? No and no, so its not that...

Deposited the money, ok like I said he cant deposit $12k, so even if he deposited... $5000, losing players generally will not improve the $5000, so even if he made a massive deposit, its at...$12000 now.... so hes obviously winning.

Won the money, so he won his $$$ playing poker because hes a semi-decent amature player, obviously practices BRM and is capable. Most likely a realistic option, so narrowing these options down I conclude it wouldnt be hard for a good parent with a remote margin of brainpower to figure out this blatently obvious situation.

Monoxide said:

Well the kid isnt just going to have $12000 to deposit, so honestly lets run thru the possibilities.

Borrowed money, is a random person going to loan a 20 year old thousands of $$$ to play poker online? Did the parents give him money? No and no, so its not that...

Deposited the money, ok like I said he cant deposit $12k, so even if he deposited... $5000, losing players generally will not improve the $5000, so even if he made a massive deposit, its at...$12000 now.... so hes obviously winning.

Won the money, so he won his $$$ playing poker because hes a semi-decent amature player, obviously practices BRM and is capable. Most likely a realistic option, so narrowing these options down I conclude it wouldnt be hard for a good parent with a remote margin of brainpower to figure out this blatently obvious situation.

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agree with what ur saying but remember 90% of the world is ignorant and thinks that poker is gambling, like roulette.

ppl have speculated that this is about umdtennis

beefcake413 said:

Speaking from personal experience, some people (and parents) view poker as gambling, pure and simple. Some people have a huge aversion to gambling period, and therefore even if you are winning on a regular basis and doing well can still not comprehend that it can be a profitable source of income. They are also worried that eventually you will "lose it all" and turn to desperate means. It is what it is.

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I guess some people are like that and I am fully aware of this, but, I can only tolerate the opinions of the ignorant for so long, thats the way I am. If I cannot sway you with facts and knowledge, I will submit to a futile situation and move on.

I was able to sit down and explain the details of poker to my mom, dad, even my grandma one time when we went out to eat dinner, she found it quite interesting actually. They all understand how skill and luck both converse into one game and its not pure gambling. I didn't even need to go indepth either, just telling them basics about poker and BRM and how poker is effectivly a "long run" game sunk into their brains with surprising understanding.

pantin007 said:

agree with what ur saying but remember 90% of the world is ignorant and thinks that poker is gambling, like roulette.

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Yeah, its sad the state of the world we live in.

beefcake413 said:

Speaking from personal experience, some people (and parents) view poker as gambling, pure and simple. Some people have a huge aversion to gambling period, and therefore even if you are winning on a regular basis and doing well can still not comprehend that it can be a profitable source of income. They are also worried that eventually you will "lose it all" and turn to desperate means. It is what it is.

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A LOT of people, counting the US 'moral majority,' but these are also the peeps who support lotteries and bingos, and buy their weekly tickets with their church and work mates.... Go figure...

Monoxide said:

Well the kid isnt just going to have $12000 to deposit, so honestly lets run thru the possibilities.

Borrowed money, is a random person going to loan a 20 year old thousands of $$$ to play poker online? Did the parents give him money? No and no, so its not that...

Deposited the money, ok like I said he cant deposit $12k, so even if he deposited... $5000, losing players generally will not improve the $5000, so even if he made a massive deposit, its at...$12000 now.... so hes obviously winning.

Won the money, so he won his $$$ playing poker because hes a semi-decent amature player, obviously practices BRM and is capable. Most likely a realistic option, so narrowing these options down I conclude it wouldnt be hard for a good parent with a remote margin of brainpower to figure out this blatently obvious situation.

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Sadly enough yes. How do you think Loan sharks operate? They're hoping you lose and possibly have to borrow more to "score the big win" to pay off your debt. It does seem that this is not the case, but young kids like this are EXACTLY who loan sharks and the like prey on to make their money. So I'll agree with you in this case it does seem improbable, it's still a possibility depending on the situation.

beefcake413 said:

Sadly enough yes. How do you think Loan sharks operate? They're hoping you lose and possibly have to borrow more to "score the big win" to pay off your debt. It does seem that this is not the case, but young kids like this are EXACTLY who loan sharks and the like prey on to make their money. So I'll agree with you in this case it does seem improbable, it's still a possibility depending on the situation.

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pretty sure this is a stretch, lan sharks arent stupid and thry know that giving a 20 year old 10k to gamble with is like rediculously negative ev for them

pantin007 said:

pretty sure this is a stretch, lan sharks arent stupid and thry know that giving a 20 year old 10k to gamble with is like rediculously negative ev for them

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Once again couldn't disagree more. Especially if they know that said 20 y/o has family that has already been financing college and life up to that point etc. They don't care who they get there money from, as long as they get it. Like I said, in this case does not seem like it is happening, but I can see why the mom would freak out without all the facts. Human nature is to insert our own version of the facts/truth if we are not given all the information.

pantin007 said:

pretty sure this is a stretch, lan sharks arent stupid and thry know that giving a 20 year old 10k to gamble with is like rediculously negative ev for them

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And to add to this point, until the last 2-3 years (when the whole financial mess has hit) it wasn't very difficult for a 20 something to get a CC with upwards of a 10,000 dollar limit. Let's call it like it is, most credit card companies are just legal loan sharks.

A credit card at least if you run up a huge tab, there is always declaring bankruptcy as an option. If hes stupid enough to do that, well, hes a 99% guarenteed failure as a poker player anyway.

Like pantin said, loan sharks are simply not going to give a stupid kid 10k, especially if they arnt going to get paid back. It just doesnt make any sense and cannot be +EV to them in any way. The ones they target are not what you describe, they would be looking for working people that have a gambling problem and are somewhat financially backed by a job yet they need more money to gamble with. All casinos games are -EV so they will need more money constantly from the shark. They dig themselves into a hole till eventually most of their paycheck each week goes to the loan shark for interest.

Loan sharks do not give money to poker players, the ones that do are called "backers" or "stakes" and are not loan sharks but investors in a sense. But these guys will only financially back proven successful players. Trust me, I know what im talking about.

I agree with everything you've said. I was more making my original (and concurrent) statements as to why the mom was freaking out. She had no idea about what was going on and assumed the worst. Once again had she not gone behind her sons back and stealth tracked his stuff, may have avoided a problem. But eventually she figured out where she was incorrect in her assumptions.

Yeah I do agree with your original points about why she would worry about such a large sum of money online. When someone lacks knowledge about a serious subject or situation it often leads to fear and/or confusion.

I guess if I put myself in her shoes, given how she played this situation out, I would be pretty freaked probably. But like you said, this all could have been solved if she minded her own damn business....lol

That was quite a read

good article and brings up several interesting points/perspectives

nicely written and interesting article .. cool that he is winning $$$ and that mom took the time and studied up on what is and what isn't gambleing and addictions...but what the heck are the fantods????...most people have a desparageing outlook on poker because it is "evil" or a rouges game and has a generally overall bad reputation and not seen as a REAL profession...which probablly is why she had such a reaction at first.....I wonder if she would of had a similar reaction if he had the same personal obbsessive problems and then left school to become a professional Tennis player......??????

intresting read. A bit long babbling on about crap but a good read.
My 2 fav quotes from the article are:

"he is benefiting from a challenging form of entertainment for which other rational adults are willing to pay." - good way to describe poker.

Nightmare outcomes still stalk my waking dreams: Dan makes millions; lives in a world of casinos, cocaine and one-night stands; wakes up one morning in middle age to discover his life is empty. - How the hell can ur life b empty if ur rich, spazed off ur face on coke and bucking loads of random girls. Sounds like my dream life haha.

lol, it was well writtne and thought provoking but i couldn't read all that self indulgent bullshit from his mother haha.

What sprang to my mind was this quote;

A kind of jealousy.— Mothers are easily jealous of their sons' friends if they are exceptionally successful. Usually a mother loves herself in her son more than she loves the son himself.

Not a perfect analogy, but it illustrates the point. Her son is 18 and it's upto how he leads his life. Oh, what about family bonds, friendships, gilfriends lol errr can't he think for himself?

The bit that made me laugh was when she had carried on the way she did, and then seemed surprised or offended that "he was going to college to get away from home"...