Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
Maybe I didn't read it right. Someone here says I have aproblem understanding what I read so bear with me. In the 1st problem there are no straight or flush possibilities, the only thing that will save your A,2 is a 2 on the river. 3 outs. Any other card will result in a win for your opponent due to his higher kicker. 44 remaining cards - 3 = 41 outs.
The 2nd problem is more interesting because of the extra overcard to your opponents 8 kicker. Now, any river card >= to 9 will result in a split pot. That's 18 cards. Again, 3 outs for you to win, and the rest are outs for your opponent. 23 outs for him.
The 2nd problem is more interesting because of the extra overcard to your opponents 8 kicker. Now, any river card >= to 9 will result in a split pot. That's 18 cards. Again, 3 outs for you to win, and the rest are outs for your opponent. 23 outs for him.
RammerJammer
Visionary
Silver Level
Ultimately, the puzzle itself doesn't make any sense, because calculation of outs in game play is based entirely upon the number of cards it would take for you to make your best possible hand from the pockets and board already dealt. What your opponent may or may not have doesn't enter into the "outs" equation at all.xdmanx007 said:
Ignoring the impossibility of knowing what my opponent has, this hand presents 5 potential winning hands greater than my current top pair of Aces, but three hands are very dangerous, one is marginal, and one is strong.
2 pairs Aces & K's = 3 outs
2 pairs Aces & 7's = 3 outs
2 pairs Aces & 4's = 3 outs
2 pairs Aces & 2's = 3 outs
Set of Aces = 2 outs
The only hands I'd really shoot for here would be the set or the hidden deuce, so of the 14 hand-making outs, I would really only base my bet or check on 5 outs, which put my odds of making a decent hand on the river at 10-to-1. Anything I bet here would have to pay me ten times the wager (if I won the pot) to justify placing it. Of course, all of this is exclusive from the consideration that I may ultimately win the pot with top pair.
Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
Typically what is meant by outs is the number of remaining cards that will result in a probable win. This number is used to determine the viability of your hole cards for whatever is left of the hand. Since you have no way of knowing what your opponent has under these conditions, hitting and out is not a guarantee of winning the hand. I ignored this accepted definition of the word for what I think the actual intent of the puzzle was, namely, determining the number of cards left in the deck on an all-in after the turn, that will result in wins, losses or split pots. Was that the puzzle XD?
'Jammer. I think 5 outs with 46 unseen cards = 5/46 rnd down to 5/45 = 1/9 = 8:1 against.
'Jammer. I think 5 outs with 46 unseen cards = 5/46 rnd down to 5/45 = 1/9 = 8:1 against.
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xdmanx007
Legend
Bronze Level
errr Simply the number cards left in the deck to either win the hand or tie it! LOL No complicated odds calculations involved... although I wasthinkg about taking that next step in a puzzle..... The second one just isn't as simplle as the first!
you have the correct idea DAWG.... need to work on your numbers though no odds although if you put in say x/44 that of course would be appropriate. WIN OR TIEFour Dogs said:
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Four Dogs
Legend
Silver Level
Yeah, that x/46 was the number of unseen cards if you can't see your opponents cards. If you can, say when your both all-in, then its 44. Of course it's all academic at that point because the decision making process is out of your hands. If you can do the quick math, I suppose it might be useful for praying purposes.xdmanx007 said:
RammerJammer
Visionary
Silver Level
It seems like we're having a discussion of practical application vs. parlor tricks. I define "outs", as I stated in my earlier post, as the number of outstanding cards which will produce my best possible hand. I believe that is the most widely accepted definition from what reading I've done on the subject. "25 outs" is the correct "pure answer". It's also about 11 more outs than I'm going to process or pay any attention to when holding the given hand Ah 2h with Ac Kc 7s 4h on the board during live play with a pot at stake.
So, within that context, I stand by my answer. 12 outs to better my hand, 2 outs for my best possible hand, 14 meaningful outs total. The other 11 outs for the split are just food for discussion.
(And I was using the "shotgun" method of quickly computing the odds on drawing the best 5 outs. 5 river outs multiplied by 2 = 10% chance of making my hand. For the odds on the turn, multiply by 4. The link below has a ton of such useful information, explained in layman's terms.)
http://www.texasholdempoker-stats.com
So, within that context, I stand by my answer. 12 outs to better my hand, 2 outs for my best possible hand, 14 meaningful outs total. The other 11 outs for the split are just food for discussion.
(And I was using the "shotgun" method of quickly computing the odds on drawing the best 5 outs. 5 river outs multiplied by 2 = 10% chance of making my hand. For the odds on the turn, multiply by 4. The link below has a ton of such useful information, explained in layman's terms.)
http://www.texasholdempoker-stats.com