Never Raising With A K Again

TheUndertaker

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In one tournament I got A K four times in a row I raised all four times to 3xBB and I didn't hit an A or K in that four turns could you believe that,and the turn just after I got 10 8 flop was A K A what THE HELL IS THAT ABOUT!Just today in a couple of SitnGo's I got A K like 5times and still didn't hit anything but the turns just after A's ands Ks came I will call with A K but Never Raising Again.
 
RichKo

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I feel your pain. I still will raise, but I've been BLASTED so hard w/AK lately, It's an easier fold for me than it used to be. Ive gone from "AK...awesome" to "AK...dammit".lol
 
The PoolBoy

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22 is better starter. Dont forget about position when playing slick...just a thought
 
SeanyJ

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Well I hope you're prepared to miss out on plenty of money :)
 
S93

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22 is better starter. Dont forget about position when playing slick...just a thought
how can u actualy believe this?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.045% 66.22% 00.83% 5556016860 69221952.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 32.955% 32.13% 00.83% 2695828836 69221952.00 { random

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.844% 49.01% 00.91% 537940749 9998687.50 { 22 }
Hand 1: 50.156% 49.32% 00.91% 541361044 9998687.50 { random }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.536% 54.80% 04.74% 386582996 33426656.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 40.464% 35.73% 04.74% 252032940 33426656.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.641% 39.28% 00.36% 299962605 2772982.83 { 22 }
Hand 1: 60.359% 60.00% 00.36% 458179013 2772982.83 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }


Yes 22 is a very slight favorite over AK pre-flop.
But 22 can never dominated a hand and it is allways fliping or crushed if u get it all-in prf where as AK dominates or is fliping against all but two hands witch you are also less likly to be up against since the fact that u are holding AK limits the possible AA and KK combos significantly.
Bottom line AK is better. Those people that think 22 is better please feed your HH´s into PT3 or HEM and check witch hand is making you more money/chips(or losing u less).


OP yeah u missed a bunch of times with AK, it sucks but your burning money if your gonna stop playing it.
 
zachvac

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Results oriented much? Oh and what Sindri said.
 
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zzzaacckk

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I just took at look at my HH's on Poker Copilot. My biggest loser is AKs, 22 is a small winner and AKo is a big winner... Boards never hit when AK are suited for me. I still prefer AKs over 22 any day.
 
Velutha

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1) Take a deep breath
2) Take as many as you need

----A) Maybe take a day off
----B) Relax with your drink of choice

3) Play poker again
4) Get AK
5) Raise without hesitation
6) Win bigger pots

7) Bonus contradictory item: I'm feeling especially perky about Big Slick after felting someone who was holding AK last night
 
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WEC

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yeah I like AK one thousand times better in Tournys than NL Cash Games...but I love raising with the hand. I miss hiting the flop with AK many times, but I still win many of the hands right on the flop or sometimes on the turn. I mean, are you saying you never bet it if it doesnt come A or K right away?

Also--I think limping with it is asking for disaster and financial ruin
 
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You should raise it again!
Keep betting after the flop if it looks good. The other player probably did neither hit the flop!
And you will get a K or an A the next four times in a row and will not post here.... :D
 
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rubslotionskin

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how can u actualy believe this?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 67.045% 66.22% 00.83% 5556016860 69221952.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 32.955% 32.13% 00.83% 2695828836 69221952.00 { random

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.844% 49.01% 00.91% 537940749 9998687.50 { 22 }
Hand 1: 50.156% 49.32% 00.91% 541361044 9998687.50 { random }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 59.536% 54.80% 04.74% 386582996 33426656.00 { AKs }
Hand 1: 40.464% 35.73% 04.74% 252032940 33426656.00 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.641% 39.28% 00.36% 299962605 2772982.83 { 22 }
Hand 1: 60.359% 60.00% 00.36% 458179013 2772982.83 { 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }


Yes 22 is a very slight favorite over AK pre-flop.
But 22 can never dominated a hand and it is allways fliping or crushed if u get it all-in prf where as AK dominates or is fliping against all but two hands witch you are also less likly to be up against since the fact that u are holding AK limits the possible AA and KK combos significantly.
Bottom line AK is better. Those people that think 22 is better please feed your HH´s into PT3 or HEM and check witch hand is making you more money/chips(or losing u less).


OP yeah u missed a bunch of times with AK, it sucks but your burning money if your gonna stop playing it.



this is all great.....but how many tournaments you get knocked out calling/pushing all in with one pair 22....vs calling/pushing all in with one pair AK (post flop i mean.)

i rather have pair of 2s.....get payed more if you hit a set.......lose less preflop with 22.
 
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In early tournament play, AK is a in small, lose big type of hand to me. I generally try not to overplay it. So I usually open raise 3xBB regardless of position. If the pot was already opened with a raise, I'll call if it's a sensible raise like 3-4xBB. I'm not wasting chips on all-ins or overbets preflop. If it's a bunch of limpers I'll raise between 3x and 5x. If it gets rid of some of the riff raff that's fine. If I hit, I bet accordingly but if I miss I usually don't continuation bet unless I'm only up against one player. The blinds are just not worth it to lose my stack over trying to semibluff. I want to keep the pots small with them because even if I hit, it's only TPTK.

In the middle and late tourney (blinds are high and antes kicked in) is when I'll open and cbet with them frequently because it's less fish and donks calling my raises so I could get some folds if I miss. I'll also start 3 betting preflop because the pot is big enough to try and take down right there.

Also, late tourney, I shove them instead of regular raising because I want to see all 5 cards since it's a drawing hand.

DOn't know if that helps but it works for me. I really don't go to war with Ak until late in the tourney. Early tourney, it just isn't worth it.
 
MATelford

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I have always stated that AK is a difficult hand to play. Only good players will make money from AK without getting lucky. Also it is overvalued more than any other hand. It is only Ace high. People seem to think an ace or or king has more chance of hitting the board than others! Think about it. When holding AK you have 6 outs to pair. If you hold QJ (in which you should almost never play) you still have 6 outs to pair. Exactly the same amount of chance a Q or J will hit the flop, as an A or a K does!

Open limping is suicide. A better idea would be to check and trap on the BB or just limp on the SB, IF you have a decent stack at your disposal.

Being out of position post flop holding AK which has paired or better is a well disguised position.

I make small pots with AK unless im shortstack in which you MUST shove EP and MP. Fold to a raise UTG. Again limp LP unless you really have to push, at around 10 big blinds.

Continuation bets are crucial in deepstack play and just try and get a better read and force your opponent to fold. If he is holding 99 on a flop of 10s 4d 7s and he has alot of fold equity, bet, raise and shove wherever possible.

If he calls and A. Sucks out - Hes a scumbag
B. Makes a good call - Only scumbags call there

:)
 
Tom1559

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Tough to understand when that happens but it does happen. You cannot put forward an arguement based on 10 or 12 hands because there is no statistical basis for such a small number. I am sure you know the odds for hitting an A or a K in the flop and if you played afew thoudsand hands you would find that the odds would match up pretty well. Does not make it any easier when you go through a bad spell.
 
MrFold

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I've been stung quite a few times with AK and tend to limp with it now in full ring games so I can see the flop as cheaply as possible.

Short-handed it's a different matter and I play it much more aggressively. But I wouldn't claim to have mastered the best way of playing it.

It's one of those hands that puts you in a difficult spot because you feel you should be winning pots with it.

But, as others have stated, at the end of the day it's only ace high.

:cool:
 
LuckyChippy

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In early tournament play, AK is a in small, lose big type of hand to me. I generally try not to overplay it. So I usually open raise 3xBB regardless of position. If the pot was already opened with a raise, I'll call if it's a sensible raise like 3-4xBB. I'm not wasting chips on all-ins or overbets preflop. If it's a bunch of limpers I'll raise between 3x and 5x. If it gets rid of some of the riff raff that's fine. If I hit, I bet accordingly but if I miss I usually don't continuation bet unless I'm only up against one player. The blinds are just not worth it to lose my stack over trying to semibluff. I want to keep the pots small with them because even if I hit, it's only TPTK.

In the middle and late tourney (blinds are high and antes kicked in) is when I'll open and cbet with them frequently because it's less fish and donks calling my raises so I could get some folds if I miss. I'll also start 3 betting preflop because the pot is big enough to try and take down right there.

Also, late tourney, I shove them instead of regular raising because I want to see all 5 cards since it's a drawing hand.

DOn't know if that helps but it works for me. I really don't go to war with Ak until late in the tourney. Early tourney, it just isn't worth it.

Perfect tourney startegy with the AK. ^^ No matter what you need to raise. It's a big hand pre-flop and you should raise while the goings good. As with every hand, after the flop you need to re-evaluate. Even with AA if the flop comes KKJ, you have to play the situation, and you're probably behind. If you don't hit you're AK and don't think a c-bet will get through, then check fold. It's always powerful before the flop, but only occasionaly after it.
 
spranger

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the best thing about AK is that if you do hit the A or K on the flop, there's a high chance someone else has a piece too. (AQ/KQ type hands which almost never fold pre)
these hands are easier to get paid off on than sets.
 
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i would have to say that AK is about useless in the beginning part of any tourney in the beginning of any tourny anyone will call because the blinds are so low and not to mention that with AK you are only 1/8 to catch on the flop i would say to wait for the morons to be flushed out before yo try raising AK because the real players will only play something tat has you beat then you wont bust on the infomuss AK people crack me up becau everyone seems to think AK is a made hand LMAO
 
BDDP

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WOW!!! that was some hellatious analyisis. I won't look at AK the same way again, however, that doesn't change the old addage that AKs is best "starting hand" in poker. A 3-5xBB raise is in order when you get it!!! When it hits on the flop play it accordingly (based on your position, what hits the board and how the other players react). However, if it MISSES the flop, let it go to any bet, it is after all only a great "starting hand"!!!
 
RichKo

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WOW!!! that was some hellatious analyisis. I won't look at AK the same way again, however, that doesn't change the old addage that AKs is best "starting hand" in poker. A 3-5xBB raise is in order when you get it!!! When it hits on the flop play it accordingly (based on your position, what hits the board and how the other players react). However, if it MISSES the flop, let it go to any bet, it is after all only a great "starting hand"!!!


Did u just make that up?...never heard that before.
 
Roller

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Big Slick
I have been burnt so many times.
I feel your Pain.
icon8.gif


After a while I realized:
(O Wait here comes the bashing the messenger type posts)
As with all the Top hands they are just starting hands.
icon4.gif


I have realized the error of my ways.
icon10.gif
icon10.gif
icon10.gif

Over and Over I should repeat in my head..
They are just great preflop starting hands.
Nothing more.

Ok I may not even believe my own words.
But it may be true.
You can Lose Large amounts when don't hit.
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You can win small amounts when they hit.
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Please don't over play them.
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Good Luck with AK.

icon6.gif
 
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i would have to say that AK is about useless in the beginning part of any tourney in the beginning of any tourny anyone will call because the blinds are so low and not to mention that with AK you are only 1/8 to catch on the flop i would say to wait for the morons to be flushed out before yo try raising AK because the real players will only play something tat has you beat then you wont bust on the infomuss AK people crack me up becau everyone seems to think AK is a made hand LMAO

WHAT? Figure your odds again, trimguy. You're way off on this one. You have six outs, three streets on the flop. Do just the rough odds calculation. Plus nut straight and flush possibilities.

There's some knowledgeable advice on here (Sindri) and a whole lot of real bad advice and bad math. Search AK threads and find aliengenius's great posts. AK is clearly superior. It's not even close. And that's not just a gut feeling.
GtW
 
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I think Ace King is a wonderful hand one of my favorites, but on fulltilt the underdog is more likely to win the crap cards.
 
Nickmond

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AK ia a fantastic starting hand, as you really only have to worry about running into AA or KK, and often times when people overplay AQ or AJ, you can clean up. Sometimes bad luck just attaches itself to a player and a hand, for me its KK...almost a guaranteed A on the flop every time, without fail.
 
motyennif

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Correct me if I'm wrong but there are only 5 hands that are better than AK at a full table - AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AKs. At a table with 2-4 players the better hands are AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT. This is based on winning odds for AK of appr. 4-1 (8-10 players) and appr. 1-1 (2-4 players). For 22, the winning odds are appr. 7-1 (8-10 players) and appr. 2-1 (2-4 players).
If my figures are wrong, then either my sources of information are wrong or my conversion from percentage to odds is wrong. (I prefer using odds because I can relate it to betting on the horses).
 
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