Need help running a home tournament PLZ!!!

I need your help guys...Its a long read but plz we need your help.

We have a tournament every Saturday night that starts at 11pm when everyone gets off from work. We usually have 20 people show up, mostly friends and coworkers. Anyway we need help with blinds, so heres some info on tournament. We start it off with 5/10 and blinds go up every 15 mins...
We let people rebuy for first 1.5 hrs of play...

The problem is that in later stage of tournament the blinds get ridiculously high for our size tournament. We cannot start making more time in between blinds in later stages because we need it to finish soon, today we played until 4am and some people have to wake up for work around 9am so we tournament has to finish around 4am.

Here is example of what happened today. We had blinds at 1600, 3200 when there was like 5 people left. We have 20 people x 1500 chips that is 30 000 chips total , if you add re buys we will make it 40 000 chips u can divide that by 5 and that makes it to about 8000 chips which is average so if you have little below that when you get your big blind you are putting in half of your chips. Needless to say its either you have to go all in because next is small blind which will pretty much put you all in. Nobody wants to play if they are not in blinds, because they know even if you have good hand like AJ and you raise the big blind the person has to call you since next time cards are dealt they will have to post small blind which will pretty much put them all in. So there is no point of raising because you cannot steal the blinds and even with AJ you have the same chance of hitting the card as 2-5, you might have little better chance but its not worth risking half of your chipstack on that. This makes the game purely luck... our chip leader kept being beat by 2-7 , 5 5, 4, 9 when he had AJ A10 and called, again no point of raising because they are calling all in w anything. He only called but as soon as other guys would pair anything they would go all in and chip leader would have to call another say 800 900 chips because he had already risked 3200.

The guy that won todays tournament around $300 won purely on luck. After posting big blind he went all in w 55, and beat AJ ... Again he went all in w 89o and beat A 10. and another time he was forced to go all in w 2 7o worst hand in poker when chip leader raised w A K. He hit a 2 on turn and won. Chip leader went out in 5th place pissed.

I have two solutions which i wll post in reply and i need you guys to tell me if they will work... you are also welcome to post some of your solutions.

Here is my solutions to this

Solution #1.... We raise the starting chips to 5k or 10k chips. This will make the ending chips higher, pretty simple solution but it could make the tournament last longer....start the blinds at 100/200 and make them last 20mins each.

Solution #2....Raise the buy in to $30 and only allow re buys first 45 mins if you go out early. This would make the money about equal and would allow less people to re buy. Also with this make the blinds go up every 10 mins until they reach 100/200 and than make the blinds go up every 20 mins after that.
This could possibly prevent some people from playing because it is higher buy in, but most people re buy anyways so i am not sure. My main concern is this preventing some people from playing, we dont have casinos here and i really dont want anyone not being to be able to buy in. Everyone is not rich ...and lets face it, people not playing doesnt do us any good for pot size.

What do you think guys, which solution would work and what are some of your solutions.

Double post.

We play $10 rebuy and like you rebuy's usually for 1.5-2 hours. 10,000 starting stack with blinds 100/200. A few times we have played for ages because we are all good mates having a laugh that we arn't always strict with blind increasesm but usually we are fairly good and decide between 20-30min levels.

For example, we would probably play:

100/200
200/400
300/600
400/800 ----> then end of rebuys, blind levels increase more dramatically from here
500/1000
800/1600
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
2500/5000
3000/6000

The biggest game we have has been 9 people with 11 rebuys and that gane last from 8pm to 12.30pm and it played out very very well, with the rebuys the stacks weren't short when the blinds upped but it did force action at later stages.

The problem is, if a game does linger on the blinds have to force action. Yesterday, we were 3 way in our tournament for almost 2 hours, it was odd but thats the way it went, even with the blinds at 1500/3000 and average stack at almost 45000 it went on and on passed the 2500/5000 limits. In the end 2 of us found a mid ace preflop and it went in.

North_Bank said:

We play $10 rebuy and like you rebuy's usually for 1.5-2 hours. 10,000 starting stack with blinds 100/200. A few times we have played for ages because we are all good mates having a laugh that we arn't always strict with blind increasesm but usually we are fairly good and decide between 20-30min levels.

For example, we would probably play:

100/200
200/400
300/600
400/800 ----> then end of rebuys, blind levels increase more dramatically from here
500/1000
800/1600
1000/2000
1500/3000
2000/4000
2500/5000
3000/6000

The biggest game we have has been 9 people with 11 rebuys and that gane last from 8pm to 12.30pm and it played out very very well, with the rebuys the stacks weren't short when the blinds upped but it did force action at later stages.

The problem is, if a game does linger on the blinds have to force action. Yesterday, we were 3 way in our tournament for almost 2 hours, it was odd but thats the way it went, even with the blinds at 1500/3000 and average stack at almost 45000 it went on and on passed the 2500/5000 limits. In the end 2 of us found a mid ace preflop and it went in.

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Thanks for sharing
See i was thinking about the same thing but the thing is your game lasted 5 hrs with 9 people and we have 20+ people so it will probably last longer which is unacceptable.

But i think if we make it rebuys first 45 mins, starting chips 10k , blinds going up every 15 mins, and starting blinds 100/200 we should be fine.

We are very good with blinds because we have a guy that sets a alarm clock on his cell phone every 15 mins... Also i think we would be good because there is lots of people calling pretty much all all ins... For example, i was holding AK same suite and this guy was holding A2 ... Flop came 4,5,9 two diamonds. I bet high , about half of chipstack this guy goes all in.. Ofcourse i call and he hits a 3 on the rive. I had so many outs and there was such a danger there with flush draw that would pretty much null his hand but he still called. There is also people calling all ins w A high after the river and suprisingly wining LOL.... So i think if we limited the rebuys it would be ok, but people might start playing more tighter...

Home Game?

Is it really just a home game y'all are playing amongst friends? Or is it a "Home" game in which the "Home" (house) is raking the pot to make money for the "Home"? If the 1st is true, why have blind increases at all? At our 'home' game, we have a $50 buy in amongst up to 10 players, all friends, and, depending on the week, either winner take all OR top 3 split---But, we do it just for the fun of it--the money part is good, but the fun part is better!

RickH2005 said:

If the 1st is true, why have blind increases at all?

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umm because the donkament would take about 5 days otherwise.

TBH, it sounds like your chip/blind structure is probably OK. If your tourney is lasting about 5 hours... and that's 5 hours to where you have to push... then that's a decent home game structure. Anything else you suggest is either going to make it last longer or be a push/luck fest from the get go. It sounds like you may have several nits, or good players, who just end up lasting until you have to push... which would happen even if their stacks were deeper.

If you were to change your start time (just as an example) you would see 5 hours is probably about right... 6-11, 7-12, 8-1. It's just that starting @ 11 puts you at 4. The push/luck fest part will probably happen with your payers no matter the stack/blind sizes.

Another alternative which I see some people do on time constraints is call an ending time. For example, (stated at the start) "we will end @ 2:00 am and pay stack sizes repectfully". If everyone knows this from the get go then not only is it fair for all but, they know that @ 1:30 they better get moving... which will force action with smaller blinds in relation to stack sizes, which is what I think you're looking for?

Is it just me or would the best solution be simply to make it a freezeout?

If you need more prize money, raise the buy-in a little.

K_Kahne_Fan said:

TBH, it sounds like your chip/blind structure is probably OK. If your tourney is lasting about 5 hours... and that's 5 hours to where you have to push... then that's a decent home game structure. Anything else you suggest is either going to make it last longer or be a push/luck fest from the get go. It sounds like you may have several nits, or good players, who just end up lasting until you have to push... which would happen even if their stacks were deeper.

If you were to change your start time (just as an example) you would see 5 hours is probably about right... 6-11, 7-12, 8-1. It's just that starting @ 11 puts you at 4. The push/luck fest part will probably happen with your payers no matter the stack/blind sizes.

Another alternative which I see some people do on time constraints is call an ending time. For example, (stated at the start) "we will end @ 2:00 am and pay stack sizes repectfully". If everyone knows this from the get go then not only is it fair for all but, they know that @ 1:30 they better get moving... which will force action with smaller blinds in relation to stack sizes, which is what I think you're looking for?

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^^^^^^
A very good solution. Much like a modified shootout or freezeout. Five hour time limit, either biggest chip stack take all, or 1,2,3 by chip count at the stroke of closing.

Hard to always please everyone, but a set ending time does resolve the time constraint issue, without having to change buy-ins or starting stacks.

Have you thought of limiting the rebuys to 2 (or maybe 1 and an add on). It sounds to me like you have too many players still in the game in the last hour. Half the field is still in play when its time to shut it down.

Cowboy8112 said:

Have you thought of limiting the rebuys to 2 (or maybe 1 and an add on). It sounds to me like you have too many players still in the game in the last hour. Half the field is still in play when its time to shut it down.

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But, the amount of players left is not due to stack sizes. If OP is saying everyone is basically at a push/pray type situation, then stack sizes makes no real difference since this situation would happen no matter the stack sizes.


BTW, if you do the time limit, you may want to get a secondary timer, set it to (X) hours and let everyone know that when the timer goes off the hand in play will be the last hand. OR, make it 1 hand after the timer goes off... gives people the chance for a last chance push if they want.

Out of curiosity ScorpionMK, what's the current blind structure like? Sometimes if you double the blinds every level, this can lead to a situation like yours where the blinds get too high later in the rounds.

If everyone starts off with 1500 chips, then in my opinion at least, starting with 5-10 blinds is a little too small. This amounts to blinds starting at .667% of the average stack. I think you would want this percentage to be higher, maybe closer to 1 or 2%.

For example, with 2%, this would make the starting blinds 15-30. You want to maintain this ratio throughout the game so that once you get down to heads up (with 20 people playing and total of 30,000 chips, 2% of 30,000 is 600 so maybe 300-600 blinds). A setup like this could address one of the problems you're experiencing.

About the time issue, I think that shortening the rebuy period is a good idea. If you make it rebuys the first 45 minutes, that's basically 3 levels of play, which is probably acceptable. Even an hour may still be a possibility if it's not unlimited rebuys. Or even still, another possibility may be to eliminate rebuys altogether.

But in addition to the shorter rebuy period, you may want to consider introducing antes at that point or shortly thereafter. In my experiences, antes help speed up the game quite a bit.

One other thing - a very simple thought, but make sure to color out the smaller chips every hour or so. I know that sometimes, we don't do that in my home games and it takes a while for people to count their chips.

These are just some of my thoughts, so take it with a grain of salt!

ryodejaneiro said:

Out of curiosity ScorpionMK, what's the current blind structure like? Sometimes if you double the blinds every level, this can lead to a situation like yours where the blinds get too high later in the rounds.

If everyone starts off with 1500 chips, then in my opinion at least, starting with 5-10 blinds is a little too small. This amounts to blinds starting at .667% of the average stack. I think you would want this percentage to be higher, maybe closer to 1 or 2%.

For example, with 2%, this would make the starting blinds 15-30. You want to maintain this ratio throughout the game so that once you get down to heads up (with 20 people playing and total of 30,000 chips, 2% of 30,000 is 600 so maybe 300-600 blinds). A setup like this could address one of the problems you're experiencing.

About the time issue, I think that shortening the rebuy period is a good idea. If you make it rebuys the first 45 minutes, that's basically 3 levels of play, which is probably acceptable. Even an hour may still be a possibility if it's not unlimited rebuys. Or even still, another possibility may be to eliminate rebuys altogether.

But in addition to the shorter rebuy period, you may want to consider introducing antes at that point or shortly thereafter. In my experiences, antes help speed up the game quite a bit.

One other thing - a very simple thought, but make sure to color out the smaller chips every hour or so. I know that sometimes, we don't do that in my home games and it takes a while for people to count their chips.

These are just some of my thoughts, so take it with a grain of salt!

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Wow i never thought about antes, i will definitely bring that up...
Also our blind structure is almost exactly like North Bank posted.

I personally think if we start with more chips and introduce antes we will get more players to play. Also i will bring up the freeze time which is another awesome idea.

Oh btw as soon as we start 100/200 we get rid of all the 5 10 25 chips and change them up for 100s.

Great ideas guys i will bring it up next time.

tips

It doesn't matter how many chips you start with, it doesn't matter what your blinds start at. Tournament structure is all relational. Length of the game is very predictable. It will end at the blind level (or one level sooner or later) when total number of chips divided by 10 equals the big blind. For example, if it were freeze-out, ten people starting with 1500 chips, it would end at about the blind level when the big blind is 1500. Add more players and more reliable projections on rebuys, divide the total by ten and structure your blinds so that you're at the proper big blind level in the allotted time.

I get asked to conduct tourneys for people often. They say they want a two hour tourney or a five hour tourney, and I'm always able to predict within a half hour when the thing will end. I see what kind of chips they have, what stacks they are used to and can make just about anything work out. There are a few ways to make your game go faster. Start with smaller stacks. Take bigger blind jumps resulting in fewer blind levels until you reach the magic BB number, or shorten or limit rebuy period.

The blinds are always going to be big in the late stages of a tourney. That's the whole idea. Big blinds force action and bring the tourney to an end. You should have people playing big stacks, small stacks, medium stacks. If you have half the field still in struggling with marginal stacks, it sounds like a pretty passive game. Maybe you guys should be playing a cash game instead.

Your timer system is a little unfair because only one guy can see it. How about a digital kitchen timer you can hang on the wall so everybody can see it?

Have you explored various blind structures like Texas TEARS? There is a lot of good info on tourney structures at the home poker tour website. Also check out the Tournament Directors' Association website. It's the one most casino poker rooms adhere to.

Good luck.

Gary

Some nice resources here, and some free software you can use here.

i play i a weekly tournament with at least twenty five players minimum sometimes 30- 35 the blinds are as follows with the buying being 25 dollars and rebuy being 20 blind increases every 15 minutes if we get started late we do 12 minutes

25-50
50-100
100-200 rebuys stop here but the difference is one can only rebuy once also have a optional rebuy for 2000 chips for 10 dollars
200-400
400-800
500-1000
1000-2000
2000-4000 you get the idea tournaments usually doesnt last past here the total pot is usually over a 1000 dollars and the tournament usually doesnt go past 4 hours 90 percent of the time

Sometimes we have 5 way splits at the final table if the pot is big enough and people just want to play ring game 1 and 2 dollar blinds .

I'm sure you should listen to whatever AG just posted, his posts tend to have accurate information and links. But here's my suggestion:

One possible solution could be to simply cap the blinds at a certain point, but if you are really getting that short stacked then your table is playing too tight. The average stack should never be less than 3xBB, with good play and a decent blind structure which it sounds like you have.

You might have a bunch of tight players near the beginning or middle of the tourney, but it's just a guess as I don't know anybody who plays there

The right time for a poker game...

Each poker game has it's time and structure set... and for this particular home game... I would do the following...

don't give everyone so many chips... 1,500 or 1,750 in chips would be perfect...

I have a chip set with 25, 50, 100, and so on....

so pass out... 10 chips of 25, 10 chips of 50, and 10 chips of 100 to each player... if you have a chip set with different values... then pass out to make it 1,500... in my case I had to make it 1,750, to have change for the blind structure....

I start my blind structure at 25/50.... and they go up every 10 mins.... with no re-buys...

and that way am sure the game would last around 2 hours... depending on how many people come along for the game...

have a good one

FWIW... your problem here is that you've got competing goals.

If you want the tournament to end by 4:00am, then you need the blinds to get high at some point. If you succeed in your goal of getting the stacks larger relative to the blinds at that stage, then you'll fail in your goal of having the game finish around 4:00.

There's some good suggestions above, what I'd suggest is:

- End the rebuy period earlier, or just don't have one at all. People will start getting knocked out earlier, and you should reach the final table when the blinds are lower.

- Slow down the levels. 15 minute levels is actually pretty quick for a live game, especially if the dealer(s) are inexperienced (if you're self-dealing, I'm assuming this is the case). Make them 20 minutes instead, and you'll probably reach the final table in about the same amount of time, but one or two levels earlier.

- Roll the blinds back one level for the final table. Everyone would have to agree to this, of course, and it's kind of a crude solution. But it's one commonly used by the likes of the WPT and other major tournaments to extend play time on their final tables, so there's no reason it shouldn't work for you.

- Change the structure slightly so that you can take the low denomination chips out of play. Sounds silly, but having to count up lots of small denomination chips can really slow the game down. If you've got 1600/3200 blinds it means you've still got 100 denomination chips in the game. Having to count up those chips every time someone makes a bet or goes all in takes time. Instead, adjust the structure so that you just don't need them when you get to, say, 500-1000. Change them out for 500 denomination chips and move on. Do the same when the 500's become redundant. You'll fit more actual hands in, because there'll be less time wasted counting big piles of small chips.

The other option is to consider changing from a tournament format to a cash game format.

Things have gone much smoother since I changed my home games over to that - the blinds stay fixed all night, people can come and go as they please, rebuy as many times as they want to, and you don't have to worry about people getting bored because they got knocked out of a tournament. You can make the stakes as low as you like, or even have different stakes on different tables if that's what people want.