mucked cards

while i was recently playing a house game i was thinking about a hand, i had A 10 of spades and the board was 4 spade 6 spade and a diamond the player to my left made a big raise and i was thinking, i pushed my cards a tiny bit in front of me and the dealer took them was he right to or did i make the mistakr

It's hard to say based on the description, but if you made forward motion with your cards and released them then the dealer was probably justified in thinking you had folded.

Avoid the issue in the future by always capping your cards with a chip or other small object while you're in a hand. If you don't protect your hand then you have no recourse if the dealer mucks your hand, accidentally or otherwise.

It is likely the dealer interpreted your movement for a fold, or possible he simply made a mistake. Either way, capping your cards with a chip is the best solution to avoid a repeat. Anyone who has played for awhile has experienced similar mistakes, don't dwell on it too long. It was only one hand.

Thank you very much for bringing this up as I rarely play live. I hardly ever have to think about this stuff. I suppose a player could also flip your card/cards away or over with their shirt sleeves as well. Ever see something like that happen?

I will have a new appreciation for card covers now.

PrinceSheba said:

Thank you very much for bringing this up as I rarely play live. I hardly ever have to think about this stuff. I suppose a player could also flip your card/cards away or over with their shirt sleeves as well. Ever see something like that happen?

I will have a new appreciation for card covers now.

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Just be a bit careful with card protectors. I never use them but use other peoples use of them to help get a read on what they are holding. Watch people for a while and you will get a good idea of what their cards mean to them by:
1. How quickly they put the card protector in place.
2. Where they put the card protector, what way up it is, what way it is facing etc
3. Whether they fiddle with the card protector.
4. Whether they change position of their card protector after any given street.

I love live games

CuttleFish

CuttleFish said:

Just be a bit careful with card protectors. I never use them but use other peoples use of them to help get a read on what they are holding. Watch people for a while and you will get a good idea of what their cards mean to them by:
1. How quickly they put the card protector in place.
2. Where they put the card protector, what way up it is, what way it is facing etc
3. Whether they fiddle with the card protector.
4. Whether they change position of their card protector after any given street.

I love live games

CuttleFish

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Thats quite interesting.

What are common motivations for those points?

Stu_Ungar said:

Thats quite interesting.

What are common motivations for those points?

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Its all about having something of value in your posession. No different to if it were a diamond ring (or a piece of dirt).
1. How quickly they put the card protector in place.
Make sure no matter what this isnt going to get taken!

2. Where they put the card protector, what way up it is, what way it is facing etc
Do they look proud of their card protector, like its protecting something really valuable?

3. Whether they fiddle with the card protector.
Maybe its not as valuable as they first thought........

4. Whether they change position of their card protector after any given street.

Has the hand become more or less valuable?

Not saying its the same for everyone, but watch how many people with card protectors dont even put it on their cards when they know they are going to throw them into the muck come their turn to act.

Meh... I can see your point, but it's limited and can be reversed on you. I find demeanor, and betting habits to be much more helpful.


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FWIW, I think in the average low-stakes live game (probably up to at least $500NL) there will be very, very few players capable of picking up tells like those and the benefits of using a card protector easily outweigh the downsides - especially if you're sitting in one of the seats immediately to the left or right of the dealer.

The tells are also easily countered by simply not doing those things: cap your cards immediately before you take your first action in the hand (don't look at your cards, decide you're going to play and cap them before the action gets to you, for example, unless you plan on doing that with hands you're going to fold as well) and then don't touch them or the card protector again until your involvement in the hand is over. It's really that simple.

yeah, sounds like you may have mucked them in the dealers eyes. i always keep my cards protected until i toss em, or until the pot is pushed to me.

Yea, if you play online this never happens lol :0
pros make mistakes all the time tho live, like the time phil ivey mucked his flush in the wsop 2009 i think final table

Lol Iveys mucked flush was pretty funny, said in an interview after didn't even realise what suit they were. There was another one as well where Iwoman mucked up in a HU match against a guy who I can't remember. Had astraight a mucked for some reason lol. She knew straight away.

I'd say its fair enough if dealer saw you move them forward and they weren't protected.