Moving from SNG to Cash Games

I find myself enjoying and profiting more from cash games over mtt. I used to play the 180 man 4.40 mtt on pstars and actually if you check my sharkscope I won that alot but I would lose the stt for some reason. Now when I play the .50/1.00 table I am seriosuly dominating. I put 28.75 cents on my account last week pushed it to 332 dollars in three days cashed out 300.00 and actually got my check today!! (even though there is a two day hold on it for some reason)

Then I run my remaining stack to 172 dollars today. I just use my same technique as mtt. I start with 20 bucks and whenever I double up i leave lol..then start over again as to not risk my large stacks

anyone else find that using the very patient tight mtt stragety is good for cash games? Im finding it to work wonders. I'm only losing on suckout donkbox moves basically.

not here to brag but after losing around 300 dollars on the MTT its good to finally get it back from the cash games.

ur experience a lot of upward variance right now and u are playing way over ur head. sure u may be winning now but ur risking too high a percentage of ur roll on 1 table and this will probably backfire on you and u will go busto

practise BRM

huh? Im actually up though....I understand bankroll management. I have played alot of games man. It just seems cash games I consistantly profit from. I cash out once i hit a certain limit and use the remaining cash to play with. I am essentially playing with profits.

If .50/1.00 is too high what do i play when I have made over 470 dollars from 28.75?

to give u an idea, ur shortstacking. playing a cash game with 20bb meaning that ur playing a very high variance game and thus instead of needing the regular 20 buyins (which u dont even have, i might add) u will need something like 50 to 60 buyins to cope with the downswings so that u wont have to drop down everytime u lose a few buyins

it doesnt matter how much u made playing a game, it matters how much u have as ur br .///winning =/= br

20bb? its .50/1.0 bb

Run it up to 5k in one night gogogogogogo

Scientist78 said:

20bb? its .50/1.0 bb

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20 bb meaning that u have 20 times the big blind which is 1$, ie ur sitting with 20$

pantin007 said:

20 bb meaning that u have 20 times the big blind which is 1$, ie ur sitting with 20$

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What would be the best starting total? Im afraid If I put 100 on there I will get AA and some donk will suckout on me. I would rather lose 20 than 100.

thanks for the replies

This is a very bad way to approach poker. You are EXTREMELY underrolled for this form of poker. If you were buying in for the full amount, you would have less than 5 buyins. The most profitable form of poker (for most people) is playing with a full 100 BB.

You will lose a full 100 BB sometimes. This will happen. It's a fact of poker. But 80% of the time your AA will win, and you want to get the full 100BB when it does. There is a plethora of reading material on why shortstacking (except when done very well, which I seriously doubt is the case here based on what is said) is not the best method of making money and is in fact unprofitable.

Note that this is not an attack, it is a statement that shortstacking is a very precise form of poker that exploits small edges and huge volume. In fact, at 100 NL (the game you are playing right now), it is debatable whether a short stacker can win at all long-term because the rake is so high compared to your wins. So your short-term success is almost certainly an upswing.

jdeliverer said:

This is a very bad way to approach poker. You are EXTREMELY underrolled for this form of poker. If you were buying in for the full amount, you would have less than 5 buyins. The most profitable form of poker (for most people) is playing with a full 100 BB.

You will lose a full 100 BB sometimes. This will happen. It's a fact of poker. But 80% of the time your AA will win, and you want to get the full 100BB when it does. There is a plethora of reading material on why shortstacking (except when done very well, which I seriously doubt is the case here based on what is said) is not the best method of making money and is in fact unprofitable.

Note that this is not an attack, it is a statement that shortstacking is a very precise form of poker that exploits small edges and huge volume. In fact, at 100 NL (the game you are playing right now), it is debatable whether a short stacker can win at all long-term because the rake is so high compared to your wins. So your short-term success is almost certainly an upswing.

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I see, dont worry im not taking it personal lol

I understand where you are coming from here. Mabye I should play lesser tables then? im playing .10/.25 now but the upswings are too small it seems.

What do you buyin for at 25NL? You probably should buy in for 25$ if you can beat the competition, since that allows you to beat the rake most easily.

I think you are too used to winning at an unsustainable winrate. Your first priority should be to not go broke, which means proper BRM. If your roll is about 400$, then even 25NL is aggressive BRM. But if you feel you can kill the limits and you are willing to move down if you go on a cold streak, go for it.

I start at the .50/1.00 with 20$ in my stack.

Excellent work keep it up! Don't worry, you don't need to buy in for the full amount, if you find adding only $20 makes you play tighter/better, no point changing that.

Perhaps moving down to 25cent might be safer for now and see how you go as you may just be on a lucky streak.

Scientist78 said:

I start at the .50/1.00 with 20$ in my stack.

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Again, you should not be playing these limits. That's about 10 times bigger limits than you can play safely with your bankroll. Move down to 25 NL or even better 10 NL. Stop shortstacking - it's not profitable.

lol at ss not profitable, but i agree with the rest of what u said

SS is not profitable at 25 NL, no matter how well you do it from what I've heard.

When I read the title of this thread I thought it was going to be a SNG/tourney player, looking to learn how to make the transition to playing cash tables..... but now I see he's already got it all figured out!

There's been suggestions on this thread here for you to stop playing Short-Stacked poker on the cash tables (ie. when you buyin for 20bb's... that's 20 big blinds... .50/1.00 >> $20... get it?), BUT personally from the sounds of it (although I'm assuming here quite a bit but just going from the limited info. I see here on this page) I think you're probably ALOT better off trying to play Shortstack bingo as opposed to buying in with a full stack at a limit you can afford...... unless your goal is to truly learn how to play cash tables? I'm not knocking shortstack strategy,.. for some they're able to do far better with it than playing deepstacked (although deepstacked play is by far more profitable once you know what you're doing).

If playing cash tables while buying in short is what you really want to continue on with, I'd suggest reading up on some stuff concerning 'playing shortstack strategy on cash tables'.
If learning how to make the transition from Tourney Play to CashGame play is what you're interested in, I'd suggest reading some basic strategy stuff on CashGame play AND drop way down in limits (even perhaps down to 5NL & for sure no higher than 10NL (.05/.10)) and stay there until you've got at least 10,000+ hands played (possibly ALOT more).

There's just a TON of stuff to learn when playing cash tables, AND alot of bad habits to break coming from tourney play and moving to cashgame play.
Then again.... if you want some excitement, action, risk, adrenaline....... GO FOR IT... and run it up to like $5K!!!

Scientist78, first, welcome to CC. The people posting here are trying to give you a warning that what you are doing will not last. You are on a hot streak. It happens, but the opposite also happens. You wrote that you understand bankroll management, sorry but you don't or you would not be playing at the 50/100 tables.

Use the search feature on here and look up Bankroll management. There are some very good post for you to learn from.

You are playing a shortstack game. From your post I'm not sure if you really know what that means. Yes, shortstacking can be profitable but do you know why? (one example...the big stacks can't set mine against you) To play shortstack you need a very well defined strategy or you WILL lose in the long run. The long run is what you are after as anyone can win in the short run.

Look around the forum as there are great post where you can learn about BRM, shortstacking(and why people hate playing against them), etc.

Good luck on the felts.

You made about 500 bucks from 30 as I can see.
If this was done in a short period of time, why not sticking to these exact kind of tables and exact number of BB as you're winning ?

3 goods reasons to keep playing at your current limits, with your current strategy:
- prove yourself, and everyone that seems quite competent around in that thread, that are telling you that this is not necessary a good strategy you have, that this is a good strategy for you and that you keep winning with it
- make more cash. You got 500 bucks. Keep this job and try to get 2000 bucks. Then you'll be able to wonder if you must move to other limits.
- if in fact, you go on in this path and are not so winning again, then you'll have avoided big losses in higher limits

fishsticks33 said:

I enjoy shortstacking the big games (50 or 100NL) every once and awhile too. I usually take either $10 or $20 of freeroll winnings and try to double up and run. Its definitely a good strategy. Just limp a lot and try to hit 1 big one. Full stacks never give the shorties any respect.

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They don't give shorties respect because of people like you who take shots way out of their limit and "limp a lot and try to hit 1 big one". If your strategy really worked, you wouldn't have to continually take money from your freeroll winnings. But to each his own, keep funding the low-stakes regs.

lol guy....i wish i was doing that good i find myself building my stack from nothing to about 50 dollars on fulltilt and then lose all my money on cash games at that level.....i have a plan to build my real money like i did my play chips with is at 150 million lol....quite an accomplishment for me....anyway ur doing good keep it up write me with some cash game tips i would appreciate it

If people didn't win the lottery occasionally, no one would play. Same with carnival games.

You've been fortunate so far, but when the inevitable downturn in your bankroll happens, make sure you go down in stakes before it's all gone.

Edit: Go Blazers!

IMO do whatever your doing thats working, if any bad changes occur change accordingly.

fishsticks33 said:

I have actually won a lot of money implementing this strategy over the past year. I always withdraw though and go back to FRs. I like the FRs a lot, and I dont like to risk my own money very much, so if I get up to $100 or so I just cash out.

Trust me, Im glad that no one respects the shorties. I just own them when I hit my hand. I'm definitely not one of the ones donating to the low stakes regs. Didn't u see? I said big games, not low stakes games and I take their money anyways.

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If you are a short stacker and EVER limp, you are a fish. It's not an insult to you, it's a realistic assessment of where you are. If you are interested in shortstacking and want to get an understanding of why playing a SS strategy is profitable and unexploitable, there are many resources that would help you in that goal. But you are either on a good run of cards or playing against atrocious players (and probably the former) if you are winning with that strategy.

Thanks for all the intereting replies. Mabye I came off the wrong way. I do not know everything about poker. However, I understand the concept of short stacking and bankrolls completely. What my point here is simple. I have only played SNGs usually. I play tight yes but I earned 2,970 dollars last year. with alot of nice finishes

from Official poker rankings.com

ITM Finishes
1st 10
1st ties 0
2nd 11
3rd 11
4-10th 39

these are some "major cashes" I won

20 Dec 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401802$144
20 Dec 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401802$144
20 Dec 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401803$86
17 Dec 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401801$216
11 Dec 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $2.201801$108
13 May 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401803$86
27 Apr 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401801$216
11 Apr 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401803$86
02 Apr 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401802$144
07 Jan 08No Limit Hold'emHENL $4.401802$144

SO to that guy earlier in the post calling me a "donk", you dont donk your way to two first place finishes in a row. Sorry can't happen. That takes skill. And THATS what I'm trying ask here. Is THAT strategy a plausible strategy for cash tables regardless of starting stack?

Maolitis: Thanks for the kind words. I don't know about 2k but Im doing well today.

Early today I cashed out again 150 dollars. left 24$ in my account and have bankrolled it to 156$. Here is the way I see the short stack concept: If the blinds are .50/1.00 you can possible see over 125 hands. I guarantee in those 125 hands there will be some monsters or some hands you can play in the correct position. No its not lotto poker, it's being patient and playing decent starting hands. I still play 10-7s jack-9s just not out of position. If that is donkey so be it. At this point I can't believe how easy it is on these cash tables. I guess after 1,453 sng games it seems easier.