Making money playing poker - Succesful players please!!!

Hello all!!!

I would be interested to know your thoughts on playing poker to win money.

What does he mean, u may think?

Well it goes like this...

I`ve been playing for about 8 months now and I find I do well in tournys (Buyins less than $20 in the main) and I do well in SNG`s, with the same kind of buyins.

For some reason, however, if I got to a cash table with $20 dollars ($0.25/0.50) I`m broke within a relativley short period of time.

Is this normal and going back to my origional question about making money, do u guys know of any poker players that make money out of the game and don`t play cash games?

I`d be interested in your comments and examples.

Cheers guys.

Ronaldadio

Normally I do well in sngs and place in the money most of the time.

Because in the low stakes cash games you'll either raise it too much and just win 35 cents off the blinds ore raise it not enough and watch your Aces get cracked. :/. That's my situation usually. I try higher stakes as my bankroll grows from the SNG games.

I seem to do better at real casinos in cash games, I havent done a tournament or SNG at a casino yet, but this month the nearest one is holding SNGs every monday, so if I can get a monday off I will go try one out.

Just do what you can do best. Some players are excellent tournament players and cant do ring games that well, while some are the other way around. You do take a different approach to each one. Find what's best for you and stick with it. Improve on the other one when you get a chance.

I generally have a negative profit (for whatever reason) in cash games, but do fine in SnGs. I believe I'm a break-even player in MTTs.

Find what you're best at, and if you're playing strictly for money, then stick to those games.

STTs are supposed to be the most profitable game aswell as the fact that they have little risk and good reward. They're a very consistent way of making money. My problem with them is that I often play too many of them, get kind of bored of them, and either start playing bad, or switch to say cash games and with my STT strategy still lingering in my head, I play a poor game and lose some money. Either that or I play an MTT with the same mindset, and hope to hit a big payspot.

If I had better discipline and patience, I personally would stick to STTs to make money.

I do well in both cash/tourn games but cash and tourny I play differnt I play more hands in a tourn like 10-12% of them and in cash games im in the 7%
let me know if you need help with cash games i'll be happy to asist

I usually do a whole bunch of the same whether it be SNG's or Ring Games, NL or Limit. When I hit an unlucky spot with one type, I switch to the other to try and change things up. Right now I'm doing good at the 3/6 limit cash games, but over the long run short handed turbo SNGs seem to be a consistent winner for me. Seems I lose money a lot faster at ring games, but make it a lot faster too.

Ronaldadio said:

do u guys know of any poker players that make money out of the game and don`t play cash games?

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I know several who only play MTTs, and successfully. 3 or 4 wins a month, and another 8 to 10 (or so) 2nd/3rds/4ths (at the $109 type buy-in level). Be warned though, this is from around 300 or 350 MTTs a month. You need a good bankroll and lots of experience.

Becoming a successful cash player takes a long time. Winning a bit at micro limits does not translate to being a successful cash player. Winning a handful of sessions at higher limits does not translate to being a successful cash player.

If you can play 60 hours a week, for several months and achieve an hourly rate high enough to live on, then you might be able to make it, but for most this will be nothing but a pipe dream. Most players wont last a year. It requires enormas disciplin in the face of relentless tedium to stand any chance. Extremely few will ever make it in NL, and only a very small % will ever make it in Limit or PL. Most wont even go near NL.

Remember, every one playing at a higher buy-in table is wanting to make money and think they can make money. What any amateur should ask themselves, is what makes them any better than anyone else? If your answer is 'I wait for premium hands' or something to that effect, then dont you think millions of others dont do the same. What really gives you the edge?

PreciousLor (a veteran, 'with an ego' for even feeling the need to state it)

I'm in agreement with most of the above posters. If you play for small stakes then SNG's are your best way to go.

The reason it's hard to make money in low limit cash games is because there are so many donks in them. It's impossible to put them on hands and you will take a lot of beats that you don't see coming. In the SNG's these types of players generally go out quicker (all though they do get hot sometimes) and in this case they can't buy back in.

If you are going to play cash games I'd say your best to stick with limit instead of no limit, if you're a hold em player. The beats will happen still but at least you won't lose a wad of cash on one hand, and good more play pays off more often.

Good advice is to also sign up for different sites and take advantage of the bonuses. I'm mostly breaking even in limit HE cash games, but I'm going from site to site just whoring the bonus. So technically i'm making some profit playing them and would like to get up to higher limits that aren't completely donkified.

I seem to place better in the Tourneys than Cash games..i like the pace and it always turns out better for me.Sorry for being brief

Joe03681 said:

The reason it's hard to make money in low limit cash games is because there are so many donks in them.

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This does not compute.

I'm more of a cash game and Mtt's person than sng's. I can't win a sng to save my life for some reason. I had a buddy at work playing on ultimate play at .01/.02 nl on ultimate bet make over $300.00 in 6 months on ultimate and he said he played two tables and a time and averaged about 40 to 50 hours a month. If your trying to make a living that wouldn't be good. I play mainly .10/.25 nl cash games and usually make 300 a month off them and thats good enough for me.

Threesixes said:

over the long run short handed turbo SNGs seem to be a consistent winner for me.

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SNGs are my main earner as well, but I`d love to hear what techniques you use to win consistently at shorthand turbos. I`d have thought the variance would be massive compared to standard SNGs.

.

F Paulsson said:

This does not compute.

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Sure it does. Generally you want idiots at the table of course, that's what makes the game profitable.

But let's say you raise with a big hand and get two callers, chances are your hand is probably going to hold up. As to the alternative, you're playing low limit poker, you raise with a big hand and then you get four to five callers. And they will call with ANYTHING. Unless you are constantly catching big hands it's almost impossible to be sure when you do or don't have the best hand. And you will take some bad losses in the process.

If it still doesn't compute go sit down at a .25-.50 no limit table for a while and get back to me.

how i try to make money

probably posted this same thing on here but here goes. i played pretty much all tournaments my first two years. Sitngoes and multies maybe15% cash games. I made the money roughly 30% of the time and still lost quite a bit of money. This includes a few top finishes in multies up to $770. The odds of putting together a run strong enough in tournaments to make bank is pretty slim(unless you play higher buyin tournaments where much more skill is involved). The biggest thing to making money online is utilizing the bonuses. Switch sites alot and use sign up bonuses. I started becoming a break even player only after switching to cash games. I mostly play around a .25-.50 nl and i've had months as high as 800 profit playing off $20. The thing about cash games is your reward for playing a good hand and getting paid off is more valuable in a tournament. You can get up leave and take your profit. In a tournament you have to continue to fight it out, hope you play well, don't get unlucky, don't get blinded off. In a cash game the blinds never go up so it allows you more flexibity in your play. Plus you get points towards bonuses on some sites for just sitting there. I use about 80% cash 20% tournament. Biggest thing is bonuses and rakeback sites

Joe03681 said:

Sure it does. Generally you want idiots at the table of course, that's what makes the game profitable.

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Absolutely correct.

But

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Argh, why did I know you were going to say that?

let's say you raise with a big hand and get two callers, chances are your hand is probably going to hold up. As to the alternative, you're playing low limit poker, you raise with a big hand and then you get four to five callers. And they will call with ANYTHING. Unless you are constantly catching big hands it's almost impossible to be sure when you do or don't have the best hand. And you will take some bad losses in the process.

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This is probably the most common misconception in poker today, and you're fuelling it. You're doing it articulately, which is at least better than "wtf i should move up to $10/$20 cos their they respect my raises!"

The truth:

* If I raise with a big hand, I want callers. They're losing money when they call, and I'm the one who picks that money up.

* I understand that I'm less likely to win the hand the more people that are in it. But my job is to win money, not pots. The pots that I win will be much bigger when more people call, and that will make up for the fact that I will win fewer of them.

If it still doesn't compute go sit down at a .25-.50 no limit table for a while and get back to me.

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Hi. I'm back.

But let's say you raise with a big hand and get two callers, chances are your hand is probably going to hold up. As to the alternative, you're playing low limit poker, you raise with a big hand and then you get four to five callers. And they will call with ANYTHING.

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Another thing is that you have to adjust your play if you're sitting at a table full of loose players like this (which is obviously very common at the micros).
Raising 3 or 4 BBs isn't enough anymore. Try 5, 6 or even more and not only will it generally get fewer callers, but the amount they're calling for is going to make up for the money lost with fewer callers. I can only wish that 1/2, 2/4 and up was played like 0.01/0.02 is.

To me it sounds like your non-believing in profitable poker at the micros is the result of the inevitable bad beats that happen.

The bigest diference in playing the SNGs and MTTs vs ring games is part mental set, part card play.

In your tourneys you have a set number of chips. Because this isn't "real money" most players play looser on the hands they have. By this I mean you are willing to commit a potion of chips to the pot with the thought in mind that if you lose you still have chips to continue with,(unless its an allin call).
When you play ring games your hand playing should tighten up till it squeeks. Especially in low limits. If you play only the premium hands you will clean up. Some bad beats will still come your way but your bankroll will increase drastically. Fish think they are gods of poker and nobody will call their bluffs if they throw a vast amount of money in the pot.

It is hard to make that transition when going back and forth between the two types of games. I think that is one factor that separates the pros from the amatuers.

The fact is, only good players can make long term profits in cash games because in cash games you need to have that sixth sense reading ability, be able to mix up your play so much more and more importantly be able to avoid trouble.

In truth, in cash games you cant make a decent amount of money by just sitting back and playing premium hands. Anyone who says that you can - is a liar. Because when you get a badbeat at cash games, it hurts your bankroll so much more than losing a tournament buy in.

By playing the premium hand strategy you can consistently place in SnG's but nothing major and by using the same strategy in MTT's along with blind stealing you can probably place in them every now and again but most of the time get knocked out on the bubble.

If anyone can prove me wrong by showing their profit and loss account details from a site i'd really love to see it.

By playing tight you cannot make big profits. You may be able to withdraw the odd $100 every other month but to me that is not successful poker.

Successful poker is when you can sit down and dominate a table in practically every session that you play and make a good amount of money doing it.

Poker is not a game of cards its a game of people and position - Doyle Brunson said that and there was never a truer word spoken.

In order to win long term you need to mix your play up and change gears so often that not even you know what you might do next. You cant be a robot using "tight aggressive" strategies at the poker table. It wont get you anywhere. If your happy to settle for a boring robotic experience at the computer waiting for that premium hand to come then congratulations.

But as an experienced Semi Professional player I will say this to you before you think of gradually throwing away your winnings to the rest of the online poker community.

When you play the "tight aggressive" strategy it will not work because of these key reasons.

1. When you win with premium hands you dont win that much because people are either going to fold due to your aggressiveness or dish out a badbeat. People wont call big aggressive bets with nothing. I dont care what you say about fish playing online poker, it doesn't happen. And everytime their Ace rag hits 2 pair and beats your Ace King its going to kill you and your bankroll.

2. When you get beat with premium hands you get beaten badly. You will always lose more with premium hands than what you win with them. Because your aggressive style will scare people off paying you off. You can generally only get paid off with premium hands if you are perceived as a "loose aggressive player"

3. Premium hands just dont come often enough. How long have you been sat at a table waiting for a decent hand only for an hour to pass and the blinds and pot stealers have completely obliterated your stack?

Tight aggressive poker is poker for stupid people or inexperienced players that aren't intelligent or experienced enough to understand the complexity of such a game as poker.

Dont want to sound like I am preaching but in truth I am just trying to save tight aggressive players some money. Robotic poker wont work at any level long term. Espiecially in Cash Games!

hey all...

i think that im doing very well at making a living out of playing poker....im a student and i get no funds what so ever from any source, roughly about a year i managed to win a nice amount in a lottery (40k or so) and i have manged to double that in a year or so mainly playing cash games at the casino. online i have a tendancy of not appreciating the monetry value of numbers as compared to the monetry value of a nice stack sitting infront of me at the casino. i regularly play live tournaments and 30-40% of the time i place in the money with 10 - 15% of the time placing in the top 10 and getting a substantial amount of money. Dont get me wrong ive had bad days and even weeks at one stage i manged to lose 12k in 2 weeks.
To me personally i think the key to making money is to play a consistent variable game if that makes any sense. Dont be tooooooo tight or even worse toooooo loose and study is always good. lol analyse the play and the players to either increase your winnings or decrease your loses. A big one for me is 'DONT be hungry for money let money be hungry for u'

ALL in ALL the money is there to be made you just have to find your niche and exploit it lol....

cheers

P.S play your own game dont let others push you or play it for you.

Allsopp, I might have a few issues with u !!!

(I was the person who started this thread, by the way.)

I will bow to your experience, BUT ...

A lot of what you say makes sense. I`ve only been playing for a relativley short period of time, 7 months, and I am one of your `robots` playing tight aggressive.

I have kept notes and figs since I started to play, and a week ago a poker pro sat down with me and pointed out a few obvious things to me.

He noticed that I got off to a good start - after 2 months I had started with $200 and I had increased that to $4,000. Playing MTT $ single table SNG`s. (all on line & I did get a big win within that time of $2,400 )

I then went through a bad patch. My $4,000 droped to $1,000. Then I spent 2 months winning and losing a bit.

He pointed out the following:-

1. My losing streak started when I started playing at higher stakes - drop back.
2. I was starting to play too many hands - tighten up.
3. Play your cards early in a tourny on line, but when you get to the last 20-30, then start to take a lot of notice and play ppl.
4. Make notes when u can.

Now it might be a coincidence, but so far in August I`ve done the following

• MTT played 35, in money 11 times, final table 9 times (all under $20 buy in)
• SNG`s played 30, in money 9, winning 2 (Some sites pay top 3)

I`ve staked $800 and won $1400 = profit of $600, and I`m only 1/2 way through the month!!!

Not bad for a tight/ aggressive robot ???

Allsop said:"Tight aggressive poker is poker for stupid people or inexperienced players that aren't intelligent or experienced enough to understand the complexity of such a game as poker.

Dont want to sound like I am preaching but in truth I am just trying to save tight aggressive players some money. Robotic poker wont work at any level long term. Espiecially in Cash Games!"

If all you ever do is play top ten hands then I can see your point. However, to say TAG is for stupid people and so on is, well, stupid.

You have to mix up your game but having a TAG basis to your game can makey you lots of money.

I play 90% in side games and do just fine thank you. Your post wreaks of arrogance and is a disservice to anyone new who takes you at your word.

Agreed with Lo-Dog.

I think Allsopp saying that "tight aggressive poker is poker for stupid people" sounds like the words of someone who doesn't really know what they're talking about. If your definition of TAG strategy is playing only premium hands like a robot, then you've got the wrong definition. Obviously you need to mix up your game... I mean, one of the main points of even having a tight image is to take advantage of it later on by mixing up your game.

Dan Harrington is a perfect example of a TAG - obviously, he knows how to mix his game in the right times and situation, but I'd have a hard time believing that's he a "loser".

Allsopp said:

By playing tight you cannot make big profits. You may be able to withdraw the odd $100 every other month but to me that is not successful poker.

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Depends on what you want from the game, surely. What you`re describing is very much the level I am at and I am very happy with it. I make no claim to be a pro. Poker is my hobby and, unlike almost any other hobby I could think of, it represents a contribution to the household income rather than an expense.

What`s wrong with that ?

Egon Towst said:

Depends on what you want from the game, surely. Poker...represents a contribution to the household income rather than an expense.

What`s wrong with that ?

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Amen to that brother. Success is in the eyes of the player (at an individual level). Here are the first two definitions I found for successful:

1. Having a favorable outcome
2. Having obtained something desired or intended

Sound right to me. If generating positive cash flow is your goal and you do it, you are successful. If your goal is to make an amount of money equal to or greater than the mortgage payment, and you do it, that is successful. Also, you may not do it every month even, but over the long term you are achieving your personal goals, then you are successful.

IMHO, most of Allsopp's post is off the mark and doesn't sound like advice a "semi professional player" would be giving. At least not one that really plays online and/or live. At best, some of the info is okay, and some close, but a lot is misleading and could damage a new player trying to follow it.

I'd go on, but I wouldn't now where to start. I'm going to go drink my dinner.

I would have to say if you want to win most of the time you need to play one type of game. If your best at sit and goes stick to that. Build a bank roll and play your limits. If you only have $200 play $10 or $15 games. As for your ring games if your not winning play limit. Use pot odds and read some books. Most people want to play nl and do ok but make to many stuid mistakes. If you play limit learn the correct way to play it. Its all odds.