Are the majority of poker players broke?

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paulyd

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I recalled watching HSP and watching how much money all these guys have. PLaying 300/600nl with 100 dollar straddle. then i start reading that many of these players arent even playing 100 percent of their own money. I mean unless you are durrrr, then you are most likely not. Am i right on this?


Also there was a player named eskimo clark and i read about how much moneyhe made from tourneys and now its like hes asking for a stakes just for a 300 dollar tounament. I read an article that a guy who didnt want to disclose his name said most live pros are broke and have backers for tournaments. And even if they hit a big score, they dont get most of it b/c they are staked.


But when you look at the real cash game poker scene, 10/20nl is the highest running game that goes regularly and thats in bellagio in vegas and commerce. Isn't it shockinw how big games don't even exist anymore compared to HSP?


I mean when was the last time there is actually like a 100/200nl game at a casino? It probably happens not counting wsop less than 3 times a year?


Also im shocked but how could some players who play so high end up going broke or close to it? I read someone mentioned there was a guy who used to play 25/50nl heads up online and he saw him playing 2/5nl shortstacked and once he doubled up, he left.


Does anyone feel like poker gives a false illusion? You see all the money on the table like in HSP but games like that dont even really exist much unless its on TV or WSOP?
 
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ph0n3_j4ck

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Im sure there are some high stakes games out there. For the most part, the television is just to get viewers, that is why it is such high stakes. Some of the players are even sponsored to play on TV.

You're correct on how most games out there are very small though. The casino that i go to back home usually only has 1 table of 2/3/5 deepstack, and most tables are 1/2/2 nlh.
 
aero87

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I am sure they are mostly free rolling. Sponsors, endorsements, advertising, royalties, ect.

Why would anyone go through the trouble of getting ready for TV with makeup, contracts, releases, if there wasn't any incentive for them?
 
Daniel72

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I am sure they are mostly free rolling. Sponsors, endorsements, advertising, royalties, ect.

Why would anyone go through the trouble of getting ready for TV with makeup, contracts, releases, if there wasn't any incentive for them?

Yes, and why would any pro compete against other tough (equal or better) pros, there is no edge ! :eek:
 
dj11

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There are a lot of perceptions we poker players have. The bigger one in the US is just how many online players are active. It is nowhere near as many as we might think.

At one of the minor Casino's in LA, Hollywood Park, I watched 5 tables of $5-10 or higher and it sure looked like each table had at least 100K on it. I would guess that Commerce or the Bike were running more and larger BI games regularly, like even at 9 in the morning.
 
absoluthamm

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I recalled watching HSP and watching how much money all these guys have. PLaying 300/600nl with 100 dollar straddle. then i start reading that many of these players arent even playing 100 percent of their own money. I mean unless you are durrrr, then you are most likely not. Am i right on this?


Also there was a player named eskimo clark and i read about how much moneyhe made from tourneys and now its like hes asking for a stakes just for a 300 dollar tounament. I read an article that a guy who didnt want to disclose his name said most live pros are broke and have backers for tournaments. And even if they hit a big score, they dont get most of it b/c they are staked.


But when you look at the real cash game poker scene, 10/20nl is the highest running game that goes regularly and thats in bellagio in vegas and commerce. Isn't it shockinw how big games don't even exist anymore compared to HSP?


I mean when was the last time there is actually like a 100/200nl game at a casino? It probably happens not counting WSOP less than 3 times a year?


Also im shocked but how could some players who play so high end up going broke or close to it? I read someone mentioned there was a guy who used to play 25/50nl heads up online and he saw him playing 2/5nl shortstacked and once he doubled up, he left.


Does anyone feel like poker gives a false illusion? You see all the money on the table like in HSP but games like that dont even really exist much unless its on TV or WSOP?

First off, you have your numbers kind of off. 20NL means that the BB is $0.20, so you would be saying that that's the biggest game running, which I know you meant $20 BB, which would be 2000NL.

Anyways, there are definitely higher stakes than that being played in Vegas. Not in every room, but in some of them. Just watch players twitter accounts and they are talking about it.

MANY players will take out stakes on high buyin MTTs, want to know why? Because there is so much variance in them and the smaller chance that they will win, so they use the stake to spread out the cost to them when they don't win. Look up staking to figure out more about this.
 
nitulbhatia

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I recalled watching HSP and watching how much money all these guys have. PLaying 300/600nl with 100 dollar straddle. then i start reading that many of these players arent even playing 100 percent of their own money. I mean unless you are durrrr, then you are most likely not. Am i right on this?


Also there was a player named eskimo clark and i read about how much moneyhe made from tourneys and now its like hes asking for a stakes just for a 300 dollar tounament. I read an article that a guy who didnt want to disclose his name said most live pros are broke and have backers for tournaments. And even if they hit a big score, they dont get most of it b/c they are staked.


But when you look at the real cash game poker scene, 10/20nl is the highest running game that goes regularly and thats in bellagio in vegas and commerce. Isn't it shockinw how big games don't even exist anymore compared to HSP?


I mean when was the last time there is actually like a 100/200nl game at a casino? It probably happens not counting WSOP less than 3 times a year?


Also im shocked but how could some players who play so high end up going broke or close to it? I read someone mentioned there was a guy who used to play 25/50nl heads up online and he saw him playing 2/5nl shortstacked and once he doubled up, he left.


Does anyone feel like poker gives a false illusion? You see all the money on the table like in HSP but games like that dont even really exist much unless its on TV or WSOP?

You have made some good points. Poker is one of the hardest ways to earn money from. Its like hurdles where the bar is two times higher than other areas of life. However for the few who make big wins in tournaments life is better.

Let me give you something deeper from a man who had a sweeter slice of capitalism than most of us:

“If you've been playing poker for half an hour and you still don't know who the patsy is, you're the patsy." to quote Warren Buffett, billionaire investor.

Im one of the patsys that plays (only freerolls).
 
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JUDGE1018

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All poker players money usually is easy come and easy go,its hard to come out on top if u play alot ,odds and big fields r stacked against you.
 
left52side

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I mean when was the last time there is actually like a 100/200nl game at a casino? It probably happens not counting WSOP less than 3 times a year?

Everytime I have been to seminole hollywood (which is quite often in past year).
There has usually always been a 200/400 mixed omaha,and at least a 50/100 NLHE.
and the being broke is just part of the life of a true grinder,everyone hits the felt from time to time,hell look at the great stu unger.
 
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paulyd

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Everytime I have been to seminole hollywood (which is quite often in past year).
There has usually always been a 200/400 mixed omaha,and at least a 50/100 NLHE.
and the being broke is just part of the life of a true grinder,everyone hits the felt from time to time,hell look at the great stu unger.


Are you sure about that? Isn't 50/100nl a rare game? I check that place and 5/10nl is usually highest game going. You sure it wasn't some big tourney?
 
DrazaFFT

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I just finished reading Ace on the river by Barry Greenstein, i get impression that poker pro life is everything but shine, big final tables, big casino glamour...i guess that pros loans money, get broke and stuff lives day after day, not the kinda life that WPT shows us on tv :)
 
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paulyd

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Also when they air high stakes poker, how many guys think there are that plays with their own money? I assume its the big names only like ivey, dwan, brunson, antonius, negreanu, zigmund, galfond and the rich businessmen?
 
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Look at Dutch Boyd, he is a bracelet winner and former highstakes player. He recently posted on 2+2 asking for a job and was prepared to work minimum wage.

Back in 2005/2006 Lex Veldhuis used to play $100/200 games against guys like H@££INGOLL and Patrick Antonius. Now he seems to just play $1/2 and $2/4 on Stars. I know he is an sponsored player, but to play games like $100/200 and above it takes more than a sponsorship package.

Surely most of the highstakes guys have to be under rolled for the games they play or are getting help from other means to be able to afford buy ins.
 
SicKBeATz

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Look at Dutch Boyd, he is a bracelet winner and former highstakes player. He recently posted on 2+2 asking for a job and was prepared to work minimum wage.

I think there may be more to that story. I just googled Dutch Boyd 2+2 and it seems there was some sort of lawsuit filed against him for using the phrase "Two Plus Two" to direct ppl to strategy articles and gaming services on a Website he and someone else created.

Not saying he's rich by any means but I imagine he has enough connections in the poker world to keep him afloat for awhile, not to mention isn't that guy like a genius or something :dontknow: I would find it hard to believe he would be working minimum wage unless he lost a prop bet or something :D
 
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Well let's see WSOP Champ Jerry Yang is broke owes IRS Greg Raymer will be broke by the time he goes to trial if it goes that far and Jamie Gold has spent most of his WSOP Money so yes a lot of Pro Poker Players are busted for almost busted Dutch Boyd is writing a book about Pro Poker Secrets so he is broke anyone remember the crap Bryon Micon put out it was a poker system to win tourneys beat he's broke too
 
absoluthamm

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Well let's see WSOP Champ Jerry Yang is broke owes IRS Greg Raymer will be broke by the time he goes to trial if it goes that far and Jamie Gold has spent most of his WSOP Money so yes a lot of Pro Poker Players are busted for almost busted Dutch Boyd is writing a book about Pro Poker Secrets so he is broke anyone remember the crap Bryon Micon put out it was a poker system to win tourneys beat he's broke too
Dude, use a period once in a while. Your post gives me a headache.

muchas de las personas que practican este juego, fácilmente se aferran a el con el afán de que este los salve les de un pasar económico y tienen tanta fe en esto, que su fe los ciega y no les deja ver el daño que este le hace, no solamente perjudica su bolsillo, si no también su vida sentimental, emocional y por que no incluir su vida social, por eso este juego que es tan hermoso hay que tomarlo solamente como divercion, como pasatiempo siempre.
¿si nos gusta el vértigo que llegan a provocar las apuestas por dinero, por que no jugarlas?
yo soy jugador de cash, pero juego solamente para pasar el tiempo siempre mido mis mesas según el poder adquisitivo que tengo, si gano no me voy a volver millonario, pero si pierdo no me va a importar.
CardsChat is English only.
 
aa88wildbill

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most of the real high stakes games go on behind closed doors you Gotta know somebody who knows somebody to get invited.
 
steveiam

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Watching the EPT high roller on TV at the moment 50k rebuy. There has been quite a few already so they can't all be broke.!
 
dj11

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I remember watching a TV tournament a few years ago now, where a guy who either won it, or cashed huge said in the aftergame interview that he would probably never play poker again. My hazy memory thinks he was from the North Countries of Europe. He sounded convincingly sane.
 
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smidjet

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most poker players are mblers and so they gamble.if they stuck to poker they might be fine but the lure of easy money chews up their bankroll,i am young and have seen it time and again.. my dad has been pro for years and rarely plays no limit in order to help control the swings,but warned me to stay clear of any of the non skilled gambling. i have taken his advise in this and so far have never been broke
 
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rhombus

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Watching the EPT high roller on TV at the moment 50k rebuy. There has been quite a few already so they can't all be broke.!
alot of them have backers and stakes in other players to share their wins and losses to lower variance
 
Poker Orifice

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I am sure they are mostly free rolling. Sponsors, endorsements, advertising, royalties, ect.

Why would anyone go through the trouble of getting ready for TV with makeup, contracts, releases, if there wasn't any incentive for them?
Yah. Why would they want to get that exposure? (their agents must be pissed with them).:rolleyes:
 
OzExorcist

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There's a few things to consider here but the short story is yes, there are an awful lot of broke poker players. They could be broke for any number of reasons - maybe they're good at poker but bad at sports betting, maybe it's drugs, maybe they've got terrible bankroll management. Whatever the reason yes, it's a lot more common than you think.

Don't go assuming that every player who takes a stake or pieces out their action is necessarily broke though. There are plenty of good reasons for a winning, non-broke player to do that too, including getting the option to play in games higher than what they're rolled for and spreading their risk more evenly.
 
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intresting thread is there any good books i could read about the true poker pro lifestyle? i was in bellagio this weekend not many big games were running
 
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