LarkMarlow
Legend
Silver Level
I've been so busy with real life lately that I haven't had time to read the last several Cardplayer magazines. Last night I was catching up and came across this article. The first example and final examples literally blew me away. Has anyone else ever come across these sorts of situations? If so, was there a ruling or not?
Rules 101Protect yourself by knowing the rules
by Linda Johnson | Published: Oct 02, 2009
During a recent tournament, I observed the following hand take place: The game was Omaha eight-or-better and five people saw the flop of J-10-4. Player A bet, and was called by Player B and Player C. The turn was a queen, and Player A bet again. This time, only Player C called. On the river, a king came. Player A checked, as did Player C. Player A turned over 9-8-3-A for a queen-high straight, and Player C showed J-J-A-3 for the nut straight. A discussion ensued as to whether or not Player C did anything wrong by not betting the nuts when it was checked to him on the button.
The tournament director was called over to make a decision. Someone at the table spoke up immediately and suggested that perhaps Player C had been concentrating so hard on his set of jacks that he had forgotten that he had an ace in his hand and had made the nut straight.
Player C then said, "No, I was aware that I had the straight."
The tournament director stated, "Well, since you said that, I have to give you a soft-play penalty." Most of the players at the table were surprised to learn that you could get a penalty for checking the nuts on the button. I pointed out that this was a form of collusion. The only reason not to bet in a spot like this (assuming that you knew you had the nuts) was if you were soft-playing against an opponent.
This rule should be clarified, because there are a few times when you are allowed to check the nuts on the button without incurring a penalty. First of all, this rule applies only on the river, since before then, you could say that you were fearful of getting outdrawn. Another example would be if someone bet into you on the river when you had the nuts, but there was still someone yet to act behind you; you could justify a simple call by saying that you knew your raise wouldn’t be called, so you were hoping for an overcall. You also don’t have to bet the nuts on the river if you aren’t last to act because you could say that you were trying to check-raise. The question came up of whether you could just call on the button with the nut low, and the answer is yes, because you could get quartered. Some players simply misread their hands and may check because they don’t know they have the nuts, so they would probably get off with a warning rather than a penalty. As you can see, this rule is subject to interpretation, but I want Card Player readers to be aware that you can be given a penalty under certain circumstances if you don’t bet the nuts on the river when you’re on the button.
I've been playing live tournaments once a month or more for the past 2 1/2 years and have never, ever have come across a ruling like this though I've seen plenty of people check the nuts on the river. Has this ever happened to anyone?
There are a few other TDA [Tournament Directors Association] rules that many players may not realize exist. I’ve seen players get upset when a hand is over and they ask the dealer to show what card would have come if they had called. This is called "rabbit hunting," and it is not permitted.
This one isn't new to me, nor the people I play with. For that reason, usually everyone just laughs in a friendly way when someone asks and the game goes on.
Some players may think that if there is a straight or a flush on the board, they can fold their cards and just announce, "I’m playing the board." The TDA rule concerning this states, "A player must show both cards when playing the board in order to get part of the pot." So, be sure to reveal your cards when this happens.
I've never seen this happen either.
Have you ever seen a player from a broken table stall in getting to his new seat in order to miss the blinds? According to TDA rules, "A player who intentionally dodges any blind when moving from a broken table will incur a penalty."
Again, never seen this happen either maybe because the next hand isn't dealt until the moved player sits down in the vacated seat. Now I realize they must do this to prevent such dodging.
Perhaps you have heard a player ask the dealer, "How much is in the pot?" For your information, players are entitled to be informed of the pot size in pot-limit games only. Dealers will not count the pot in limit and no-limit games.
This one also blew my mind. Though I usually keep pretty good track of the pot, probably because of online training, I've heard this question asked more than once in almost every tourney I've played, particularly towards the end. No one has ever been penalized for doing so.
The www.pokertda.com website has been updated with the 2009 rules. If you are a tournament player, be sure to protect yourself by knowing the TDA rules.
Sounds like good advice, especially after reading this article!
Rules 101Protect yourself by knowing the rules
by Linda Johnson | Published: Oct 02, 2009
During a recent tournament, I observed the following hand take place: The game was Omaha eight-or-better and five people saw the flop of J-10-4. Player A bet, and was called by Player B and Player C. The turn was a queen, and Player A bet again. This time, only Player C called. On the river, a king came. Player A checked, as did Player C. Player A turned over 9-8-3-A for a queen-high straight, and Player C showed J-J-A-3 for the nut straight. A discussion ensued as to whether or not Player C did anything wrong by not betting the nuts when it was checked to him on the button.
The tournament director was called over to make a decision. Someone at the table spoke up immediately and suggested that perhaps Player C had been concentrating so hard on his set of jacks that he had forgotten that he had an ace in his hand and had made the nut straight.
Player C then said, "No, I was aware that I had the straight."
The tournament director stated, "Well, since you said that, I have to give you a soft-play penalty." Most of the players at the table were surprised to learn that you could get a penalty for checking the nuts on the button. I pointed out that this was a form of collusion. The only reason not to bet in a spot like this (assuming that you knew you had the nuts) was if you were soft-playing against an opponent.
This rule should be clarified, because there are a few times when you are allowed to check the nuts on the button without incurring a penalty. First of all, this rule applies only on the river, since before then, you could say that you were fearful of getting outdrawn. Another example would be if someone bet into you on the river when you had the nuts, but there was still someone yet to act behind you; you could justify a simple call by saying that you knew your raise wouldn’t be called, so you were hoping for an overcall. You also don’t have to bet the nuts on the river if you aren’t last to act because you could say that you were trying to check-raise. The question came up of whether you could just call on the button with the nut low, and the answer is yes, because you could get quartered. Some players simply misread their hands and may check because they don’t know they have the nuts, so they would probably get off with a warning rather than a penalty. As you can see, this rule is subject to interpretation, but I want Card Player readers to be aware that you can be given a penalty under certain circumstances if you don’t bet the nuts on the river when you’re on the button.
I've been playing live tournaments once a month or more for the past 2 1/2 years and have never, ever have come across a ruling like this though I've seen plenty of people check the nuts on the river. Has this ever happened to anyone?
There are a few other TDA [Tournament Directors Association] rules that many players may not realize exist. I’ve seen players get upset when a hand is over and they ask the dealer to show what card would have come if they had called. This is called "rabbit hunting," and it is not permitted.
This one isn't new to me, nor the people I play with. For that reason, usually everyone just laughs in a friendly way when someone asks and the game goes on.
Some players may think that if there is a straight or a flush on the board, they can fold their cards and just announce, "I’m playing the board." The TDA rule concerning this states, "A player must show both cards when playing the board in order to get part of the pot." So, be sure to reveal your cards when this happens.
I've never seen this happen either.
Have you ever seen a player from a broken table stall in getting to his new seat in order to miss the blinds? According to TDA rules, "A player who intentionally dodges any blind when moving from a broken table will incur a penalty."
Again, never seen this happen either maybe because the next hand isn't dealt until the moved player sits down in the vacated seat. Now I realize they must do this to prevent such dodging.
Perhaps you have heard a player ask the dealer, "How much is in the pot?" For your information, players are entitled to be informed of the pot size in pot-limit games only. Dealers will not count the pot in limit and no-limit games.
This one also blew my mind. Though I usually keep pretty good track of the pot, probably because of online training, I've heard this question asked more than once in almost every tourney I've played, particularly towards the end. No one has ever been penalized for doing so.
The www.pokertda.com website has been updated with the 2009 rules. If you are a tournament player, be sure to protect yourself by knowing the TDA rules.
Sounds like good advice, especially after reading this article!
