This is a discussion on KK v AA within the online poker forums, in the General Poker section; This is in no way a brag post-- looking for opinions on a question that I've had for quite some time. This is a live
This is in no way a brag post-- looking for opinions on a question that I've had for quite some time. This is a live 1/2 NL game, villian has not been involved in anything for about the first our of play. Stakcs are both around $150.
Dealt to Hero: Ks Kd
Villian, UTG raises to $7
Folded to Hero, raises $20 to $27
Villian raises $40 to $67
Everything about this hand screamed AA. I took my time in making the decision and convinced myself that I was making a good lay down. I mucked and he turned over AA.
The last time I remember getting it AI in this situation in a live game was about a year ago, almost the same scenario, with me calling (getting lucky and hitting a K on the turn). I since then I have been thinking about this scenario over and over again, online and live. My thoughts have always been this: If I put my opponent on AA and only AA, I'm crushed and can wait for a better spot to get my money in. In the hand I posted, I just couldn't see him making this bet with QQ or even a wild AK. I've read other places that and AI between AA and KK is just a cooler and 50% of the time, you'll be on the better end an the other half you're on the losing side. I disagree with this, and like I said, if you cannot put your opponent on any other hand, it has to be a fold. I'm looking for any advice on this scenario from other players. Thanks.
22nd March 2008, 7:56 PM
If I was absolutely, without a doubt sure my opponent had AA, I would most definitely fold KK in this situation.
The only time I might call in this situation is if effective stacks are huge and Im getting great implied odds to catch a set and possibly stack my opponent.
22nd March 2008, 8:15 PM
Online Poker at: Internet
Game: NL Holdem
AA vs KK happens (to me) every day I play on Carbon Poker.
Since I'm on 0.10/0.25 cash tables, and I'm optimistic idiot who thinks his AA's are best hand, I always call, and lose against KK, QQ, 66 ... etc
I guess you probably made a good laydown, considering that you played on internet. I'm not sure If I could ever do that before I see the flop ... although, in live game, I would NEVER EVER fold KK pre-flop
22nd March 2008, 8:28 PM
re: Poker & KK v AA
With 75bb stacks we can very VERY rarely find a spot to fold kings. Don't let the results make you think you made a good laydown here, I think this should be a push.
If he flipped over AK or QQ here you'd feel you made a terrible laydown. Keep in mind that players who are this tight often go nuts when they pick up a hand after being so card dead.
I had a guy open for 7bbs (100bb effective) with JJ and shove over a check-raise on an AK8 flop (i had 88).
Anyways, I'd go so far as to say NEVER to fold KK with 75bb effective stacks.
22nd March 2008, 8:42 PM
Online Poker at: PokerStars
Personally, I'm not laying down KK preflop, and would have made the call. But, I play on lower limit tables, which often see players reraise all-in with AK or weaker pairs. I've occasionally run into AA, but I'm still making good money with KK, so don't plan on changing.
22nd March 2008, 9:58 PM
Poker at: pokerstars
i think about it
23rd March 2008, 2:23 AM
Online Poker at: Full Tilt
Live games it's easy to lay down KK because you can get more tells, especially off of amateurs and people who primarily play online. But online it's harder.
23rd March 2008, 4:10 AM
Poker at: Full Tilt
re: Poker & KK v AA
You shouldn't be happy with your play here.
yes this time he had aces but this could happen ten more times and they may only have aces twice...
don't be surprised if you see many players doing this with QQ
i just think long term folding kings preflop like this is just a losing play
23rd March 2008, 4:16 AM
Online Poker at: Pokerstars
Personally, I think it depends on whether you are playing cash games, toruney or sng's. Im exclusively an sng player, and would very very rarely consider folding KK preflop at the $16 sngs i play because you often see 99-QQ played this way. hey, i even see total trash played like AA.
and i would agree with the consensus here - yes it was a good fold in the short term, but in the long run i believe it is far more profitable to shove it in preflop with ur kings.