Just wondering? Card DeadNess

Here's something, and I find it happens to me not often but when it does it's a bitch I swear, anyways, lets just say you bought into any tourney, and as the blinds are going up, you just keep folding and folding and folding, because A)The table Aggressive B)No cards what so ever, so what exactly do you do in these circumstances?

This is usually the part in the game I just get bored/fed/and just decide to just luck box it, because I can't fathom going in to the first break as the lowest in the tourney cuz of my tight ways...Correct? So what should I do to not let this happen to me? Or is there nothing I can do when up against players like this?

I find myself in this position sometimes and thinking about it a lot of the time because I am card dead I get into the mindset that everytime a hand is played I cannot beat what my opponents holding or just when I think about it my starting hands get tighter in what I will play because I want to keep as many chips as I can which is ok in some situations.

The problem is we just keep getting blinded down and that takes one of the weapons we have to combat this which is the steal or re-steal, although its hard commiting many chips with small PP or suited connectors and the like before long your gonna be in the situation where you will be pushing with almost any two cards anyway so why not do it when your stack has a bit of power behind it?. Of course ideally you will just win blinds and antes but if you get called with say a 10-9s in your hand your not the biggest dog in the world against most hands. I guess this where reading your opponants helps for example I was in a sng the other day and some Russian player accumulated chips very fast by just calling almost anything even taking down a 3 way aipf hand with 7-4h against jj and AA. In fact pretty sure he put all the chips in first lol. Not saying goo all in with 7-4 but just shows what some people will play.

You just have to decide if you can go to war with a weaker starting hand against certain players but when you do try to make it the players who are just looking to survive.

I re-read Gus Hansens bok the other day and he said something that stuck with me "I cannot believe people wait around getting blinded out just to go crazy with an ace rag" That used to be me that did lol.

This happens to me a lot after I dbl up early in a tourny. I end up playing tighter with a big stack bc I think I can afford to be tight. It's hard to push a big or medium stack in just to win blinds but sometimes ya gotta have the balls to push with that suited connected or Axo

sometimes nothing is a pretty cool hand. It's more than just the cards. U will need to makes some plays and get lucky and draw out. I've seldom won a tournament without at least once having the worst of it( dog) with starting hand. Try to look for spots as well as cards.

Going into 1st break as one of the shortest stacks doesn't bother me that much.... ie. I'm never going to just get it in w junk because I've been cardead. Instead, I will just adjust my play according to my stack size in relation to the blinds & when I get a spot to push with a hand that figures to be +EV, I will get it allin if need be (or if I have enough chips to resteal shove... ie. a stack of say 12-20bb's, I'll look for a spot to shove over an LP raise/steal).
How can getting blinded down to being a shortstack be avoided?.. It depends. It depends alot on your table, your image, etc. If I can find spots to raise in LP with stuff like 75s I will (if I feel table conditions warrant it, ie. Blinds are actually paying attention & see I have folded for umpteen orbits in-a-row).

I have had long stretches of dead cards and admit it starts me wondering if the poker site is picking on me - even though I know better. I've had better cards recently but for several months it just kept being really bad and got to me. At Christmas time I shut down until after the holiday. Jan. 2010 started off better and I got back the money I lost during the dark days.

When the cards are dead - i'm dead - you can't bluff every hand and playing rags is not surviveable. When your best hole cards in the game are a pair of 3's and your being blinded out. It Sucks.

I find it hard to believe that you can't find one situation in a full hour of play that can win you a hand. There are plenty of spots when the cards are not what you're betting, and you can find at least one or two of these spots when you're card dead because, from your opponents point of view, you're just extremely tight. Use the fact that you haven't played any hands to your advantage and make a move at a pot, try to steal some blinds, 3-bet a blind steal because it's the 1st hand you've played and the raiser is very aggressive in position with a low call %. You could even call a pfr and make a move on the right flop against the right opponent. You can't bluff every hand, it just doesn't work, but if you're not playing hands your opponents have to assume that you picked something up and are betting for value. If I'm around the starting stack size, that's usually fine for the 1st break. You're going to have to pick up some pots soon with your M shrinking, but there's no reason to not try to win if the cards alone aren't doing it for you.

4sorbetter said:

I find it hard to believe that you can't find one situation in a full hour of play that can win you a hand. There are plenty of spots when the cards are not what you're betting, and you can find at least one or two of these spots when you're card dead because, from your opponents point of view, you're just extremely tight. Use the fact that you haven't played any hands to your advantage and make a move at a pot, try to steal some blinds, 3-bet a blind steal because it's the 1st hand you've played and the raiser is very aggressive in position with a low call %. You could even call a pfr and make a move on the right flop against the right opponent. You can't bluff every hand, it just doesn't work, but if you're not playing hands your opponents have to assume that you picked something up and are betting for value. If I'm around the starting stack size, that's usually fine for the 1st break. You're going to have to pick up some pots soon with your M shrinking, but there's no reason to not try to win if the cards alone aren't doing it for you.

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Your Stratagy seems logical, but I am assuming it's A)Not meant towards a multi-way Pots and B)Not meant to be against Players that are more then Likely gonna call you, correct? Now I litterally got no cards In close to an Hour of Play today at a MTT over on AP, and to boot I swear most of the pots were like either multi-way pots where there were raises already Preflop, and Enough Callers Irregardless of the Raise, and B, alot of Limpers preflop, so it was just like a down hill thing, and I mean, I seriously did make it to first break, but then just was so low with Blinds at 100/200 and my stack at 800, that I shoved with QJo, which btw was the best hand I've gotten that entire game, lol....But I understand what most ppl are trying to get at....

This happens to me mainly when there's about 100left before the money of a tournament.I would like to think i have the image of a tight player so when i make a bet or raise i usually get the blinds and antes with no contest.

TheUndertaker said:

This happens to me mainly when there's about 100left before the money of a tournament.I would like to think i have the image of a tight player so when i make a bet or raise i usually get the blinds and antes with no contest.

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I must've had the image of a Virgin I tell you . Yet my down fall was the fact that my chips, compared to the blinds, and dead money compared to there stack sizes, not to mention the odds they were getting to call me was just a lose/lose situation for me...

Well none-the-less there's more tourneys out there....Hopefully it was just a today thing....Cuz I seriously never had such a thing happen to me litteraly dead for close to an hour straight, lol...

Some tournys are just like that. Lots of raises and no cards = a slow painful death. Partly it becomes psychological. You don't literally get no cards, you get 2 each hand like everyone else. There is not always a raise ahead and they do not always call your AI bet or you'd already be out.

That said, there are some weapons you could deploy before you are down to a few blinds. But, as some guy said you gotta be willing to die to live.

As you get down under 20 bb look for a way to get back in it. Sometimes a bully will be constantly stealing your bb. Pop him back with anything resembling a hand once in a while. Even something like 65s will suffice. He's probably fos anyway.

When there always seems to be a raiser and some callers when you are in the blind watch the pot odds. 68 off suit may be worth a call when the odds are right.

If you are using good BRM, not playing over your head, these situations shouldn't cause you much pain. You are better off making a stand win or lose. There's always another tournament.


Same thing with stealing. As your stack gets shorter, under 15bb you have to take a stand. At least once a round you will be first to act. Look for a chance to get it all in. If there are antes just stealing preflop will give you a nice boost. The pot odds will help if you get called.

No your all correct, but to Gold, your especially correct when you say Psychological thing, I mean, I need to start looking at it in a different aspect, As apposed to, "For **** sakes" Mentally, "Why is this happening", or "There's just no way I'm going to win with cards like this Mentally"...So I'll take everyones words/thought into consideration, hope the best for all on/off the felt...

4sorbetter said:

I find it hard to believe that you can't find one situation in a full hour of play that can win you a hand. There are plenty of spots when the cards are not what you're betting, and you can find at least one or two of these spots when you're card dead because, from your opponents point of view, you're just extremely tight. Use the fact that you haven't played any hands to your advantage and make a move at a pot, try to steal some blinds, 3-bet a blind steal because it's the 1st hand you've played and the raiser is very aggressive in position with a low call %. You could even call a pfr and make a move on the right flop against the right opponent. You can't bluff every hand, it just doesn't work, but if you're not playing hands your opponents have to assume that you picked something up and are betting for value. If I'm around the starting stack size, that's usually fine for the 1st break. You're going to have to pick up some pots soon with your M shrinking, but there's no reason to not try to win if the cards alone aren't doing it for you.

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Oh it is hard to beleive until it happens to you -- I wasn't born yesterday and I assure you I play every hand that has possibilities. From personal experience it is without question entirely possible to go trought and entire 45 player SnG with and never see anything but rags. The idea of a few bluffs and playing small pair don't get you a chipload that keeps you going and you get blinded out. An hour turns into 2 hours or more before your
blinded out. It happens, believe it or not.

naruto_miu said:

Your Stratagy seems logical, but I am assuming it's A)Not meant towards a multi-way Pots and B)Not meant to be against Players that are more then Likely gonna call you, correct? Now I litterally got no cards In close to an Hour of Play today at a MTT over on Absolute Poker, and to boot I swear most of the pots were like either multi-way pots where there were raises already Preflop, and Enough Callers Irregardless of the Raise, and B, alot of Limpers preflop, so it was just like a down hill thing, and I mean, I seriously did make it to first break, but then just was so low with Blinds at 100/200 and my stack at 800, that I shoved with QJo, which btw was the best hand I've gotten that entire game, lol....But I understand what most ppl are trying to get at....

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If you're letting yourself get blinded down to 800 with 100/200 blinds you need to just push at some point much sooner imo. It's 75/150 before that, so I guess you had around 1000 durring that level. I would push with almost atc at that point. You only have an M of ~4 and the next blind lvl brings you down to an M of less than 3. There's no point in not just taking a shot with atc, hoping that it's a 60/40 to get up to 2000 chips than fold your way to 800. They might even decide to fold a hand too. Any face card, any gap cards, like 80% of the hands are a push to just get more chips. I just don't see a point in folding to 800 chips with 100/200 blinds. And if there is never a heads up opportunity then I would just push and pray...not like you can do much more and just write if off as varience.

If your opponents understand position, you can play position, no need to hold good cards...
Unfortunately, most dont understand it and dont have a foldbutton...
GL
aC

I think we all have been in this situation at one time or another. I would never let myself get much more than ten times big blind without shoving with something. If you are not getting good cards in good situations you must start choosing hands to play strong well before you are down to four big blinds.If you go down fighting with so-so cards oh well try another game.

There really is an art to playing a small stack tho. Anyone can sometimes find themselves short stacked.

Picking which particular spots when you are down (but not out) is literally life or death for the tourney. Sometimes you know it's ATC. you are so low there is no other choice. But when you have even a few blinds left picking the best spot on a given round can make or break your big comeback.

I won't usually push a random Q3os or even Ace rag all the time unless there is some overriding reason to "know" everyone will fold. Sometimes you do know they're only playing hands they absolutely have to. On the bubble for instance. Than any two cards may be your range.

Being 1st in the pot is important unless you have a real hand. You don't want to follow someone into the pot with A6os or QT unless you are desperate. Most of the time I hold out for some kind of hand where the cards are related. Suited and or connectors and of course any pair foot the bill. And you don't usually want to limp or call any raise without going allin. I even tighten up on calling the SB to preserve chips for the push. Anytime you are first to act strongly consider whether going all in is the correct move.

If you are playing within your BR you shouldn't worry about missing the money cutoff. Play with the intent of moving up to the bigger money deeper in. If you are in a $10 and $12.50 matters to you drop down to $5 or even $3 you are playing too high. At that level you should be insulted to get a dollar profit for your troubles. In a MTT I'm shooting for at least 10X the buy-in or it's been a waste of time.

i think what poker oriface said is about correct. since there's not much else to do. getting lucky does help but you also have to know what hands will work best and will pay off when they hit.

mostly i don't let it bother me much, because some days it just happens. trying to force a hand that won't work just don't work.

i wait for the next time to make it up and on those days it seems as though i can't do anything wrong, haha. then i have loads of fun. :marchmell :beer:
good luck on those days you'll have FUN.

Gold's right. Gotta take some chances. Made me realise I've been playing very tight recently and eventually relying on SS play.

Position + bluffs when card dead helps keep you alive. Indeed! Just don't bluff into a player with the nuts. *sigh*

I learned how to bluff because of this, just learn to pick your spots an don't do it to often, I just think if I normally wouldn't push in this situation I push hard lol that's my only trick to bluffing an for some odd reason it works well most of the time lol :beer:

Heres my recient example of being drop dead card dead in a live tournament. I am getting absolutly no playable cards for the first 20 hands so I start limping with a lot of things, suited connecters, some other suited cards and I either get raised out of it or nothing hits the flop. So I'm down about 1 fifth of my stack and I get A 8 off suit, and try to bluff in mid position, I actually scare everyone off except SB calls my continuation on the flop of K 8 3 rainbow. turn is a K and SB bets the pot and I fold and they show trip Ks. So a least four differend dealers have been rotated at my table and nothing changes. I am trying to last out the drought and when I do get something I will have some chips to battle with but I am now down to 3 fifths of my stack when my table is broken down and I get to go to a new table. This table is super agressive and I am short stack so after I loose a blind I am no down to less than 2 fifths and I get my best chance of K J suited so I am all in in strong position and I get two callers. The flop is K J 3 and the two remaining big stacks are going at it so I figure I am in big trouble, the turn is a Q and the river is another 3. I loose to K 3 off suit. Very bad day and never won a hand!
I spoke to 3 of the tournament final table winners, two of them were in the top 3 and there were about 200 entraints. They all said they had incredable runs and had streaks that nothing went wrong for them and they were getting amazing cards and that is what got them to the final table. Does anyone want to challenge the luck theory?

budebuzz said:

Heres my recient example of being drop dead card dead in a live tournament. I am getting absolutly no playable cards for the first 20 hands so I start limping with a lot of things, suited connecters, some other suited cards and I either get raised out of it or nothing hits the flop. So I'm down about 1 fifth of my stack and I get A 8 off suit, and try to bluff in mid position, I actually scare everyone off except SB calls my continuation on the flop of K 8 3 rainbow. turn is a K and SB bets the pot and I fold and they show trip Ks. So a least four differend dealers have been rotated at my table and nothing changes. I am trying to last out the drought and when I do get something I will have some chips to battle with but I am now down to 3 fifths of my stack when my table is broken down and I get to go to a new table. This table is super agressive and I am short stack so after I loose a blind I am no down to less than 2 fifths and I get my best chance of K J suited so I am all in in strong position and I get two callers. The flop is K J 3 and the two remaining big stacks are going at it so I figure I am in big trouble, the turn is a Q and the river is another 3. I loose to K 3 off suit. Very bad day and never won a hand!
I spoke to 3 of the tournament final table winners, two of them were in the top 3 and there were about 200 entraints. They all said they had incredable runs and had streaks that nothing went wrong for them and they were getting amazing cards and that is what got them to the final table. Does anyone want to challenge the luck theory?

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Yeah, I'd like to challenge the Luck theory...Really look at it like this why do Hellmuth, Chan, and Brunson have the most wsop Bracelets? Simple, is it luck? No, the answer is Skill, Yes Luck is a part of poker, but it's only a small part of poker..... ...Now would you like to rephrase your comment?

You can have luck or no on any given day. Skill you have or don't everyday.

Patience IS a virtue....

naruto_miu said:

This is usually the part in the game I just get bored/fed/and just decide to just luck box it, because I can't fathom going in to the first break as the lowest in the tourney cuz of my tight ways...Correct?

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In the words of Mike 'The mouth' Matusow, when talking about the WSOP, "it's a marathon, not a sprint" and to this extent, I agree. I have only been playing poker for a year but I have come to realise that patience is the key to successful tournament play. It doesn't matter how many chips you have at first break, just as long as you still have some chips left to play with.

I used to think that it was important to get an early lead and indeed I would too! Then I would bust out by calling a short stack all-in raise with a marginal hand. I have found that those players who do take an early lead are rarely to be found at the final table. This is probably the mindset of most newbs and would begin to explain the recklessness of these individuals in the freerolls. (however I see from your profile that you have been playing a while)

My first tournament success came in the UK freeroll 27th July 2009 on Full Tilt. 1693 entries, the match lasted almost 5 hours, and I won a whole $15!!! At one point I was reduced to 120 chips and could easily have gone on tilt, but prevailed to win the tournament outright. During that time there were FIVE breaks and, had I been playing to the break, I doubt I would have won at all. Tournament play is about survival to the Final Table. By all means go all-in when you have a premium hand but why risk your entire stack on marginal hands? Also, don't try to eliminate EVERY player at your table or every time you play a hand... there are other tables playing too, and players are being eliminated at those tables as well.

It is frustrating to see the eight other players at your table win pot's that you did not even enter (and should have won had you done so), and sometimes it feels like there is one player at your table that wins every pot, either through blind stealing or winning with rags. You then find yourself playing rags too, with the thought that "if he can win with 64o then so can I". DO NOT succumb to this!!!

Loosen up and see a few more flops, but know when to fold when you miss or are facing one or two overcards. Think of folding, not as a display of weakness, but as a way of protecting your remaining chips.

Finally... Forget Luck. If luck were the only thing needed to win there would be professional roulette players.

No, dont get me wrong about luck, luck is not the main reason for winning but, without luck you will not win. You still have to have a lot of skill and understand how to play and win with many different approaches to put yourself in position to win, what I'm trying to say is that at some point you either have to get great cards or the cards you get and play have to hit and win. You dont get great cards with skill and you cant get cards you decide to play to hit with skill, you increase your chances by playing smart but no cards = no luck = no win, you can only bluff and limp until the blinds cripple you and someone comes along and takes your chips.