just hoping for an explanation

H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
ok so i was playing on pokerstars a few months back and had a bit of luck on a couple of tourneys and won about £1000 i carried on playing for a bit then hit a downswing so i withdrew my winnings which at that time was about £800. a couple of months later I went to sign into my account to make a deposit and play some more poker only to find that pokerstars had closed my account. the email they sent me classified me as a business risk which I don't understand what this means. I have sent them two emails since asking them to explain exactly what this means and they do not even bother to reply. so i'm posting this in the hope that someone here can help. I cannot even ask at pokerschoolonline as they have closed that account too. thanks in advance for any info provided
 
CforChampion

CforChampion

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Total posts
124
Chips
0
That's very strange, I have never withdrawn any money from them so I'm not familiar with the process. The best advice I can give is email them until you get this resolved I don't think there is anything else you can do, maybe make another account? I'm sure someone will help you eventually.

Hope you get it resolved. :)
 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
well i have been reading through some of your other posts about people getting banned from pokerstars and someone asked to see emails that pokerstars had sent. well I have nothing to hide so I'm going to post the entire conversation here and then everyone can see.

Me: ok what is going on i haven't played in a while and i just tried signing in and got told my account is frozen please explain why
security@starsaccount.com

12/18/17
cleardot.gif


cleardot.gif

cleardot.gif
to me
cleardot.gif


Hello Philip,

Thank you for your email.

In line with our internal security processes, we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts.

We regret to inform you that your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Regards,

Ronald
Stars Security

To enhance the security of your Stars Account, we strongly encourage you to set up our additional security features; Stars PIN, SMS Verification, RSA Token and Security Questions.

Activation of these features is extremely simple and can be completed within the ‘Account’ menu within our software.

We will NEVER ask you to confirm your login credentials or password via email, phone or chat facility or in any way. We do not advise giving your login information to anyone under any circumstances.

Me: so why did my account not pass this screening just telling me it did not is not enough information I want a proper explanation

my account is secure and no one in the world could ever guess my password so is it because I withdrew money or another reason.

thanks in advance

p. budden

this email back never even got a reply. that was on 18/12/17

on 22/01/18 i sent them

ok i was a little p'eed off when this happened but I still have not received a decent explanation of why this was done. I withdrew all my money because I got a little stressed but this is not me saying i'm never playing poker again I will always calm down come back and make more deposits to play with. £800 is a drop in the ocean for you guys when you make at least $22500 in rake off the sunday storm every week. I have been playing on this site for a few years now and never been a rich player in fact the money i had in my account was the highest it had ever been and if you cancel accounts for withdrawing the players winnings then how do you expect people to react. please reply with a reasonable explanation as personally I would like my account re-instated so that I can play poker again. you have the best site in the world and the only one I really play on.

yours sincerely.

P. Budden

and they replied with

security@starsaccount.uk

7:24 PM (19 hours ago)
cleardot.gif


cleardot.gif

cleardot.gif
to me
cleardot.gif


Hello Philip,

Thank you for your email.

In line with our internal security processes, we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts.

We regret to inform you that your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Regards,

Jose
Stars Security

To enhance the security of your Stars Account, we strongly encourage you to set up our additional security features: Stars PIN, SMS Verification and RSA Token. Activation of these features is extremely simple and can be completed within the 'Settings' -> 'Account Details' menu within our software.

We will NEVER ask you to confirm your login credentials or password via email, phone or chat facility or in any way. We do not advise giving your login information to anyone under any circumstances.

Me: this is just the same generic email you sent me previously. it still does not explain why i am considered a business risk. the bottom of the email says about increasing the security of my stars account. how can i do this with a permanently cancelled account. no one in the world could crack my password and my login details are never supplied to anyone even though i play on multiple devices it is always me playing.

would I be allowed to set up another account if i use the extra security features mentioned at the bottom of the email you sent.

thanks

p. budden

to which they replied this morning with

security@starsaccount.uk

4:33 AM (10 hours ago)
cleardot.gif


cleardot.gif

cleardot.gif
to me
cleardot.gif


Hello Philip,

You are permanently excluded from accessing our site. Any new accounts you make will be closed, and any funds within the account will be subject to confiscation.

We thank you for your understanding.

Regards,

Arthur
Stars Security

still absolutely no explanation of what i did wrong











 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
sorry tried editing to get rid of huge blank spaces but did not seem to work
 
demibar

demibar

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2015
Total posts
2,318
Awards
10
GR
Chips
108
omg this so strange and the explanations that gave you are so poor ,ask them in wich divice they thought that someone cracked your pass and location that this happened they should have some evidence right?
 
Herkstwin

Herkstwin

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Nov 13, 2017
Total posts
1,233
Awards
2
CA
Chips
61
That series of responses is total garbage. I cannot imagine what kind of risk they figured you were, except that you cashed out your winnings.

Is there another PokerStars support email you can contact, rather than the "security" one. Those are cut and paste answers. You need something from the PR department. And I would suggest that you let them know about your posts here on CardsChat.


Maybe the good people here at CardsChat can give you some advice, or contact PokerStars on your behalf?


Good Luck.
 
NoPlace4U

NoPlace4U

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Total posts
468
Chips
0
PS is pure garbage nowadays too bad that there is no real competition or else they would be in trouble.
 
TheNutz4You

TheNutz4You

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Total posts
3,751
Awards
4
US
Chips
117
wow that is unreal, to close your account without so much as an explanation. it would seem there is more to this story, which I hope not and that you have giving us all the info you might have.
 
vov4ik

vov4ik

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Total posts
3,354
Chips
0
I can not understand, so many players do, they win money and withdraw = then they replenish and again win and deduce what that means suspiciously for them in your data or something that is not understandable, if you do not get to unfreeze your account it means it's very serious problem, then you will have to play at another poker room!
 
AlexPedsPaps

AlexPedsPaps

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2018
Total posts
93
Chips
0
I can’t understand what their logic is behind that. Surely they can see that you’re a regular player anyway so actually blocking you is doing nothing but harming them? If no one is willing to treat your queries with respect then you may as well take your £800 and your future business elsewhere.

It is becoming more and more apparent that PokerStars doesn’t want to be PokerStars anymore and they are focussing more on BetStars; they simply don’t care about their Regs anymore :(
 
PHX

PHX

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Total posts
7,133
Awards
16
TT
Chips
78
Stars will never close your account without good reason. I have been with Pokerstars for ages and 100% trust them when comes to security and integrity.

It could be that you did nothing wrong and it is a mix up/error on their part. I have seen it once or twice.


But most likely you are breaking one of their policies. The last email incline me to think that you have multiple accounts. Also I think you are not 100% truthful with us but that's just my opinion.


If you write them they will let you know exactly why they banned you. Or maybe you can get a friend to access them on live chat from with in the client if you can't log in.
 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
I do not have multiple accounts on their site, I have accounts at most other poker sites(mainly for freebies that they send out) and anyone who plays poker would more than likely have notes on me as I always have the name haemophile or haemophiliac if I did have multiple accounts then I would understand why they had closed my account because I would be cheating and that is not the sort of person I am.


If I was cheating wouldn't I have made more than £1000. I reckon I would have a good £100000 in my account if I was cheating.


the only reason that this has annoyed me is because all poker players play on pokerstars and they have pretty much killed any other poker site down to a bare minimum of players and as any poker player will tell you, the more players in a tournament the easier it is to cash because more people get paid. this is why I play at pokerstars and not any other site because the other sites only have very small tournaments.


although one thing I can think of is that I had multiple payment options on my account and before withdrawing my money got most of these deleted so that I could withdraw my money because of their policy about when you withdraw they send the funds to the OLDEST card on your account not the newest so if I withdrew my money they would have sent it to a card that had been cancelled by my bank.


but I want all you guys to know that every card that was on my account was in my name and issued from my bank or credit card supplier nothing was in any other name.


also I have now sent in an official complaint because it is required before I can get the gambling commission to put this to an ADR but then if I still do not receive what I think to be an acceptable reply then I will be forwarding this to the gambling commission in the UK to get their view and maybe they will be able to get an explanation as to why my individual account has been closed.


there is more to the conversation which is below they sent this today and I will post my reply as well.


Dear Phillip.

Thank you for your email.


As previously advised we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts, we would like to remind you that, as stated in our terms of service which can be found at
https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/



3. AUTHORITY

Rational Group retains authority over the issuing, maintenance, and closing of Users’ accounts on the Site. The decision of Rational Group’s management, as regards any aspect of a User’s account or use of the Service is final and shall not be open to review or appeal subject always to the right of Users to refer any unresolved complaints to the independent disputes resolution process set out in Section 12 of this Agreement. The account created by a User shall hereinafter be known as a Stars Account. The User’s Stars Account will provide access to all the Sites, made available to you under the terms of this Agreement, by Stars Interactive Limited, as applicable to your geographical location. Any and all references in this Agreement to the term ‘User account’ or ‘account’ means your Stars Account.

Kind Regards,

Paola
Investigations Team
PokerStars


ME:
well done all that states is that you have the choice of whether my account is cancelled or not. it still does not tell me the exact reason why you have closed my account but don't worry i will put in an official complaint and then take it to the gambling commission because this to me is unfair treatment of a customer everyone i have spoken to about this cannot understand why you have closed my account. i have withdrawn money from multiple sites and never had my account closed anywhere. so if you think this is the right thing to do then i'll leave you to it and ask the gambling commission to get a real explanation because obviously you will not supply one to me








Also want to point out that every email I have been sent has been sent by a different person each time which does not make me think they are taking this seriously.


and this is the complaint that I sent to their support via email


THIS IS AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT AND I WANT IT TO BE GIVEN TO YOUR COMPLAINTS DEPARTMENT
you have closed my account and refused to tell me why my INDIVIDUAL account has been closed.
all you keep sending me is generic emails and things from your terms and conditions that state you have control over whether or not I am allowed to use your site.
this is not enough in my books I want an official statement as to why MY ACCOUNT has been closed.
if you do not supply me with an answer that I think is acceptable I will take this to the gambling commission to see if they can get a full explanation.
I did nothing wrong and can not see what was wrong with my account except the fact that I withdrew all my funds in one hit which was £800 and seeing as you are stated as making over $400000 per annum is a drop in the ocean.
I do not want to be replied to with anything from your terms and conditions or a generic email that you Obviously send to anyone that you do not like. I want to know WHAT EXACTLY WAS WRONG WITH MY ACCOUNT apart from the fact that you think I should not be able to play on your site anymore.
I am keeping a record of all emails that you have sent to me including what I have sent to you and this will all be supplied to the gambling commission so that they can make a decision on whether or not my account was closed for a legal reason or whether it was just a personal reason.
I do not think that you should be able to close accounts for personal reasons as every account makes you money in the form of rake.
If on the other hand it was closed for a legal reason then tell me the exact reason that my account was closed.
The gambling commission states that I have to place an official complaint with the site before asking for an ADR to check whether or not they think this is fair so that is what I am doing.
P. Budden
username: haemophile

 
Last edited:
grumblbrumbl

grumblbrumbl

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 27, 2017
Total posts
644
Chips
0
The fact is that other players win far more than your 1000 pounds and successfully withdraw them and continue to play. I do not believe that poker stars is trying to get rid of good players who are lucky to win. Every day people win huge money. But they are not blocked. And in your case ... I do not know. A case of one in a million. It's like collecting a royal flush.
 
terryk

terryk

TheCanuckwithalltheluck
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Total posts
7,053
Awards
10
Chips
1
Your right about it being a drop in the ocean,,,it`s like you or me not paying 5ct to somebody.So why would we do that?:icon_scra
 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
I agree that there maybe more to this than I am seeing but that is what I want them to tell me. I am hoping that the complaint will make them tell me why because at the moment all I can see is that I withdrew money, which other people do as well in amounts a lot greater than what I did and are still allowed to play.


hell they even shout about it when someone does something brilliant like the person that won the Sunday Storm when they only had a few dollars in their account to start with. so I want to know why I am being singled out
 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
mainly keeping this here so i have a complete record in one place but after officially complaining they sent me this.

Hello Philip,

Thank you for your email.

As previously advised we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts, we would like to remind you that, as stated in our terms of service which can be found at: https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/ you are permanently excluded from accessing our site.

We would like to bring to your attention Section 12 of our End User License Agreement:

12. DISPUTES

12.1 The User accepts that the historical data of each game shall be as recorded on the Rational Group servers. In the event of a discrepancy between the cards displayed on your computer and the game records on the Rational Group server the latter shall prevail. The User accepts that the "Instant Hand History" and "Hand Replayer" features of the Software shall not be considered as the official historical record of any hand.

12.2 The uk gambling Commission requires its licensees to put into effect a written procedure for handling customer complaints and disputes and to provide information about that procedure to Users in their terms and conditions. This complaints and disputes procedure does not in any way restrict the right of Users to bring proceedings against Rational Group in any court of competent jurisdiction and will only be binding upon the parties where they agree that it should be so. Rational Group complaints and disputes procedure is as follows, and is entirely free of charge to Users:

STEP 1: Users should contact Support and provide as much detail about their complaint as they are able.

STEP 2: If our customer service team cannot resolve the complaint to your satisfaction and the complaint relates to the outcome of a gambling transaction, Users may refer the dispute for independent dispute resolution.

Our third-party dispute resolution provider is IBAS and can be contacted at: adjudication@ibas-uk.co.uk. Users wishing to avail themselves of this service may also consult the IBAS website for more information at: http://www.ibas-uk.co.uk.

Users are entitled to receive a copy of this procedure on request or upon the making of a complaint. Users should note that the complaints may be rejected where the arbitrator considers them to be groundless or malicious and that a ‘complaint’ is where a User is dissatisfied with any aspect of Rational Group’s conduct of its licensed activities and that a ‘dispute’ is an unresolved complaint about the outcome of a User’s gambling transaction with Rational Group. Users acknowledge that Rational Group is required by regulation to provide information about each complaint made referred to The UK Gambling Commission.

Alternatively, if you remain dissatisfied with the resolution of your complaint after interacting with our customer support team, you may refer to the EU’s Online Dispute Resolution Platform. For more information please visit their website here, and follow the guidance provided to log your complaint.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.


Kind regards,

Nataliya
Stars Security

To enhance the security of your Stars Account, we strongly encourage you to set up our additional security features; Stars PIN, SMS Verification, RSA Token and Security Questions.

Activation of these features is extremely simple and can be completed within the ‘Account’ menu within our software.

We will NEVER ask you to confirm your login credentials or password via email, phone or chat facility or in any way. We do not advise giving your login information to anyone under any circumstances.



------- Previous Email -------


From: pbudden
Sent: 01/30/2018 11:45:33
To: security@starsaccount.com
Subject: Re: Stars Account closed
and obviously you are not the complaints departmentment or a manager otherwise this would be stated under your name so you are not taking this seriously and giving me blase answers. as you are not taking my complaint seriously this will be taken further I am fed up with these excuses and being sent the same email by different people every time. everything will be supplied to the appropriate authorities.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: security@starsaccount.com
Subject: Stars Account closed


Hello Philip,

Thank you for your email.

As we already inform you your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account.

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Regards,

Giuseppe
Stars Security

To enhance the security of your Stars Account, we strongly encourage you to set up our additional security features; Stars PIN, SMS Verification, RSA Token and Security Questions.

Activation of these features is extremely simple and can be completed within the ‘Account’ menu within our software.

We will NEVER ask you to confirm your login credentials or password via email, phone or chat facility or in any way. We do not advise giving your login information to anyone under any circumstances.
this is a straight copy from email and has come out upside down​
and this was my reply.​
ok i understand what that says but i want this in black and white


are you accusing me of cheating and if so i want to see your evidence.


i don't understand how the cards that are shown on my screen can differ in anyway to what is shown on your server unless one of us is manipulating the data.


I will provide full access to my computer to anyone who requires it to prove my innocence.


I have nothing to hide and this just seems like more gobble-de-gook to avoid putting anything concrete in black and white so that I could take you to court for libel or slander.


you just don't understand the kind of person I am. If I was cheating then I would have accepted your decision and just walked away.


The only reason I'm making this much noise is because I'm protesting my innocence.






Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: security@starsaccount.com
Subject: Stars Account closed

Hello Philip,

Thank you for your email.

As previously advised we carry out periodic business risk assessments on randomly selected accounts, we would like to remind you that, as stated in our terms of service which can be found at: https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/ you are permanently excluded from accessing our site.

We would like to bring to your attention Section 12 of our End User License Agreement:

12. DISPUTES

12.1 The User accepts that the historical data of each game shall be as recorded on the Rational Group servers. In the event of a discrepancy between the cards displayed on your computer and the game records on the Rational Group server the latter shall prevail. The User accepts that the "Instant Hand History" and "Hand Replayer" features of the Software shall not be considered as the official historical record of any hand.

12.2 The UK Gambling Commission requires its licensees to put into effect a written procedure for handling customer complaints and disputes and to provide information about that procedure to Users in their terms and conditions. This complaints and disputes procedure does not in any way restrict the right of Users to bring proceedings against Rational Group in any court of competent jurisdiction and will only be binding upon the parties where they agree that it should be so. Rational Group complaints and disputes procedure is as follows, and is entirely free of charge to Users:

STEP 1: Users should contact Support and provide as much detail about their complaint as they are able.

STEP 2: If our customer service team cannot resolve the complaint to your satisfaction and the complaint relates to the outcome of a gambling transaction, Users may refer the dispute for independent dispute resolution.

Our third-party dispute resolution provider is IBAS and can be contacted at: adjudication@ibas-uk.co.uk. Users wishing to avail themselves of this service may also consult the IBAS website for more information at: http://www.ibas-uk.co.uk.

Users are entitled to receive a copy of this procedure on request or upon the making of a complaint. Users should note that the complaints may be rejected where the arbitrator considers them to be groundless or malicious and that a ‘complaint’ is where a User is dissatisfied with any aspect of Rational Group’s conduct of its licensed activities and that a ‘dispute’ is an unresolved complaint about the outcome of a User’s gambling transaction with Rational Group. Users acknowledge that Rational Group is required by regulation to provide information about each complaint made referred to The UK Gambling Commission.

Alternatively, if you remain dissatisfied with the resolution of your complaint after interacting with our customer support team, you may refer to the EU’s Online Dispute Resolution Platform. For more information please visit their website here, and follow the guidance provided to log your complaint.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused.


Kind regards,

Nataliya
Stars Security

To enhance the security of your Stars Account, we strongly encourage you to set up our additional security features; Stars PIN, SMS Verification, RSA Token and Security Questions.

Activation of these features is extremely simple and can be completed within the ‘Account’ menu within our software.

We will NEVER ask you to confirm your login credentials or password via email, phone or chat facility or in any way. We do not advise giving your login information to anyone under any circumstances.



------- Previous Email -------


From: pbudden
Sent: 01/30/2018 11:45:33
To: security@starsaccount.com
Subject: Re: Stars Account closed
and obviously you are not the complaints departmentment or a manager otherwise this would be stated under your name so you are not taking this seriously and giving me blase answers. as you are not taking my complaint seriously this will be taken further I am fed up with these excuses and being sent the same email by different people every time. everything will be supplied to the appropriate authorities.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: security@starsaccount.com
Subject: Stars Account closed


Hello Philip,

Thank you for your email.

As we already inform you your account has not passed this recent screening process, which has resulted in the permanent closure of your account.

https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/tos/

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Regards,

Giuseppe
Stars Security

To enhance the security of your Stars Account, we strongly encourage you to set up our additional security features; Stars PIN, SMS Verification, RSA Token and Security Questions.

Activation of these features is extremely simple and can be completed within the ‘Account’ menu within our software.

We will NEVER ask you to confirm your login credentials or password via email, phone or chat facility or in any way. We do not advise giving your login information to anyone under any circumstances.
what do you guys think of this?​
done on my phone so it might have doubled some of it up sorry if it has.​
 
Last edited by a moderator:
shinedown.45

shinedown.45

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 18, 2006
Total posts
5,389
Chips
0
Maybe stars is trimming the fat(so to speak) and you're not the only one, do a google search, look for similar stories.

They had mentioned "Business risk assessment", and with monetary transactions being involved, it only falls under;


Financial Risk

Direct financial risks have to do with how your business handles money. That is, which customers do you extend credit to and for how long? What is your debt load? Does most of your income come from one or two clients who might not be able to pay? Financial risks also take into account interest rates and if you do international business, foreign exchange rates.



Maybe, based on the time you have had your account, how much you have deposited, how much you have withdrawn and maybe a projection of how this may affect them in the future could have been the reasons why.


Sounds crazy but if it happens to fall somewhere in the TOS, you're SOL.



 
PHX

PHX

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Total posts
7,133
Awards
16
TT
Chips
78
I did some digging around there a few other cases like these up on some forums.

It has nothing to do with cheating but verification. Either your verification documents are incorrect or something drew a red flag when you sent them it. Or could be something as simple as mistaken identity.


You can take it up with the UK gambling commision or maybe send an email to this address playeradvocate@rationalgroup.com explain the situation and see if they can assist or at least hopefully respond to you.
 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
thats a good point joeisi as i have never been asked to provide identification of any sort perhaps if i email them and offer to send my passport details they will let me play again
 
grogrich

grogrich

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Total posts
108
Chips
0
its not commun something like that! have a lot of people with more cash in game, and win more than you and i never see that.Try too send more e-mails or find some phone or services to call for pokerstar assistence center.
I hope you solve this.
 
H

Haemophile

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Total posts
192
Awards
1
Chips
0
thankyou joeisi i emailed the address you gave me and they replied that although it may not get me reinstated if i provide proof of identification they will consider it. So although it's not a definite at least it's something i can do to try.
 
Top