Originally Posted by steffdbird
Firstly sorry for another off topic rant!!
where did you learn history????
In both ww1 and ww2 america preferred to not be involved but supported there allies by selling us weapons and food which was so lucrative to the usa, The uk spent 50 years paying off these debts, which of coarse we needed to fund our war campaign and to revive our country after the campaign which we could never thank the usa enough for the lend-lease deals we received which is why our counties are so close
America which you sayed and I quote ''made incredible sacrifices in WWII to ensure that Europe should be free'' only joined 2 years into the war, the war started when us brits declared war against germany on september the 1st 1939 and america joined on December 8th, 1941 and the only main reason for americas 2cent input was because japan bombed us naval base ''pearl harbour'' on the 7th of December 1941. Yes america made a contribution but not a ''incredible sacrifice'' there is always speculation on the what and who's but the facts are there for all to read
So please learn a little more about the subjects you intend on making big claims about I'm shocked your from the uk and are so ill informed on history !!
And as for the usa discrediting the russians don't you see what russia and china are doing? backing these evil countries and all just (Imo) to go against the uk and usa. for instance look at the syrian troubles where that evil man gassed his own people most of which were young children and women, and the uk an us were going to intervene and what happened russia stepped in and defended this barbaric misuse of chemical weapons and urged us to not get involved. there is a line on how far we can be pushed around and with russia now engaging in what has been described as a '' total war invasion'' we have every right to exercise our rights to sanction the russians as they had done to us durin the syrian troubles
I am well aware of the timescale of the USA's involvement in WWII (and WWI). It does not alter the fact that thousands of American servicemen died in Europe. As for the selling of supplies, without those we could not have kept fighting, and I regard President Roosevelt as one of the great men in history for allowing this even though the American government was not wholly in favour. His decision to agree with Churchill and make North Africa the priority was certainly the key factor in winning the war in Europe.
As for your insistence that Russia always supports the 'bad' men I am touched by your faith in the facts as given by the UK and USA media. Surely you don't believe all of it? Perhaps you still believe there are Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Are you aware that an estimated 200,000 civilians have died violently in Iraq since the invasion - even the most biased commentators hesitate to say that Saddam Hussain would have killed that many!
There are large numbers of people in the Ukraine who support Russian Intervention...that has been reported and confirmed. To suggest that Russian troops moving to the area to protect Russians (and supporters of Russia) in Ukraine is wicked is ridiculous. Hardly 'total war invasion.'
You must understand that as soon as a country moves from a dictatorship or communism to embrace democracy there are immediate new opportunities for corruption. I was in Romania soon after it moved to democracy and I was told that virtually all the people making up committees and councils to make democratic decisions were old members of the Communist party. It's inevitable!
The Romanians were very frustrated in the first few years as they saw massive bribes being given to those councillors by American multi-nationals to move into the country. Luckily those years have passed without widescale disruption and so far as I am aware a sort of democracy now exists there.
In the Ukraine I similarly assume that massive corruption has been taking place and there are millions of dis-satisfied people. Naturally many of them want the old system back...which in my eyes is probably better than trying to impose democracy on a country which has never, ever known it...which is what the UN did with Iraq.
As for Syria, I know only what I have read and seen in the UK media...much of which I am sceptical of. It seems to me, though, that intervention by Western Powers on the side of the opposition has already caused the deaths of far too many people and prolonged the agony of the rest. I do not recall reports of mass gassings by President Bashar al-Assad,
Finally I am amused by the fact that you mention 'evil' countries. Does that include all the people in them? Are all Iraqis evil? All Ukrainians, Georgians, Iranians, Afghanis? And I remind you that it was the Great British government who imprisoned Ghandi and Jomo Kenyetta - both of who are widely regarded as the most influential leaders their countries have ever had. No, there are rarely governments which are all bad, nor all good!