Is it Time to Stop Making Fun of People Who Play Cards "Because it Was Suited?"

Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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Is it Time to Stop Making Fun of People Who Play Cards "Because it Was Suited?"

so it's an old joke "But it was suited" is often used as a quote to describe bad players or bad thought processes.

We've all heard the chastising: "2 cards being suited only adds an average of 2% equity to your winning chances". and this seems to be aimed at discouraging "good" players from playing cards because they're suited.

Well... wait....2% can be a lot in certain situations that are borderline to begin with. And when you're playing with deep stacks being suited doesn't just add equity to your real chances of winning at showdown (which is what people mean when they quote the 2%) being suited often allows you to semibluff or float or barrel and win pots you wouldn't otherwise win. Just generally giving you reasons to continue in the hand and realize the equity of your hand without being bet out of the pot.

for example, you continue with a flush draw in position on the flop, you pick up a weak pair on the turn and call another bet. you miss the flush on the river but your opponent gives up with AK and that weak pair ends up winning at showdown. It was being suited that allowed you to continue to the river and realize the full equity of your hand, even though you didn't make a flush.

I think that as more and more players are learning and the game is getting harder and harder to beat, 2% edges can't be dismissed in assessing your preflop decision. Especially when you consider beating the rake and your post flop skill edge relative to the field.

thoughts?
 
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rhombus

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Good points.
2-3% then becomes 4-6% swing i.e. as your equity goes up villins goes down

Also with suited hands you realise your equity better as you can be more aggressive with you have draws even backdoor ones which can add another 4% on the flop :)

PS im a fish who plays suited cards lol
 
shanebob123

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I will play a weak ace if it's suited and I can see a cheap flop. Has worked out several times with a huge pot.
 
Jhon Lozano

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Sometimes playing cards with the same suit results, although doing so often can make the villains suspicious.
 
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Marginal

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funnily enough, I thought the suited thing had gone away, I guess from time to time I would hear it at lower stakes but usually its pretty acceptable to add to your range because of the suit.

Suited combinations make hands infinitely more playable especially in cheeky plo games.
 
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rhombus

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funnily enough, I thought the suited thing had gone away, I guess from time to time I would hear it at lower stakes but usually its pretty acceptable to add to your range because of the suit.

Suited combinations make hands infinitely more playable especially in cheeky plo games.
Do you use the low suited cards as blockers in PLO as can never be too aggressive when you hit low flush draws when deep
 
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Booyah777

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I dont play low suited cards because I always get beat to a higher flush. High suited cards are good but depends on the price.
 
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suited

I will sometimes 3B with suited aces. It's great for defending the blinds and you can flop a monster draw or you can just outright steal with a CB or obviously win the pot pre-flop.
 
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There's a huge difference between KQs and 83s...
 
ByronP

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Great comments. I have definitely sent some people home upset when those suited one gappers hit. LOL
 
Jacki Burkhart

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There's a huge difference between KQs and 83s...

right. the difference being that you're going to play KQ or KQs almost equally in the exact same situations.

83s you're only essentially playing FOR it's suitedness....thereby playing it "because it's suited" is reasonable (in some scenarios).

or in other words...the trashier the hand the more being suited matters.
 
IPlay

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I reserve that joke for when I showdown a goofy sooooted hand
 
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braveslice

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so it's an old joke "But it was suited" is often used as a quote to describe bad players or bad thought processes.
I agree too that 2% is just a theory number, the practical value must be well higher. Well at least 2% equity does not mean 2% in expected value.

Then again those any two suited card players calling 3bets with 85s are just hilarious, so I would guess the old joke "But it was suited" remains forever =) Also most any two suited players will hunt the draw to the death, increasing the value of the joke.

Blog talk about very same topic, good read: https://www.pokernews.com/strategy/the-real-value-of-being-suited-in-no-limit-hold-em-22789.htm
 
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BigJamo

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Yep, Im still playin' em not matter what they say.
 
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It's better to play soooted junk hands than non suited junk,
(well at least by a few percent anyway).
 
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ChuckNola

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right. the difference being that you're going to play KQ or KQs almost equally in the exact same situations.

83s you're only essentially playing FOR it's suitedness....thereby playing it "because it's suited" is reasonable (in some scenarios).

or in other words...the trashier the hand the more being suited matters.

Yeah but 83 suited is a hand to play when you're in position trying to steal some blinds against players who don't typically blind defend unless they are nutted.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Yeah but 83 suited is a hand to play when you're in position trying to steal some blinds against players who don't typically blind defend unless they are nutted.

it's also a hand to defend your BB with vs a min raise when antes are in play.

it's also a hand to 3bet with because you have to have 3bet/fold hands in your 3betting range. I'm amazed how many players only 3bet for value and then their 3bet/fold range becomes the worst part of their value range. It's much better to flat with hands like 66 and 3bet/fold hands like 83s. Which means sometimes when you 3bet 83s you will get flatted and you will play a pot with this garbage and picking up a flushdraw at some point makes the hand infinitely easier to continue with.
 
IPlay

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83s is taking things a little far don't ya think? You can 3bet fold plenty of hands better than that.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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83s is taking things a little far don't ya think? You can 3bet fold plenty of hands better than that.

yeah. you can 3bet fold better hands....but it's a shame to 3b fold hands that have potential to flop really well. hands like 83s or J4s their main value is bluffing value.

I agree 83s is a little on the weak side you don't have to pick that specific hand (it wasn't me who first picked it as an example) but whether you're 3b folding with 83s or J4s or 74s the main point is basically the same. You pick a certain number of combos that you want to be in your bluff range and you find those combos from among hands that are either the bottom of your flatting range, or just a little too weak to flat with. your BLUFF range doesn't need to be particularly strong/good.

What you don't want to do is 3bet fold your weakish medium strength hands, and that's what I feel like some weaker players are doing when they're trying to balance their ranges...why would you 3bet fold a hand like A4s which is potentially ahead of a bunch of his raising range and even has 25-30% equity against the top of his range. it's a shame to end up folding a pretty decent medium hand like that which can flop tons of equity. Better candidates for balancing ranges are junky suited cards, IMO.
 
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Like OP said. Suited Cards are great in my opinion. It just feels badass when i play a Flushdraw semi agressive and my opponent trys me to bluff out of the pot when i hit the Flush later.
SRY DUde i "bluffed" first. ;)

ALlthough i have to admit that this mainly is done in bigger Tournaments.
 
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I Guess the problem of plays suited os that you calls like J10 on, and on the floop came J high, if have anexo KJ on the hand out drop down tour chips just calling, I usualy dont calls this hands because if you floop like that you dont fold, just call and Lost.
Thats my opinion you can desagree
 
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I Guess the problem of plays suited os that you calls like J10 on, and on the floop came J high, if have anexo KJ on the hand out drop down tour chips just calling, I usualy dont calls this hands because if you floop like that you dont fold, just call and Lost.
Thats my opinion you can desagree

Can't disagree with that.
The other problem with playing small suited cards, is when the flush does hit it can easily stack off against a bigger flush.
I used to play Ace Two suited for that very reason,
in which case I wouldn't get too attached to the ace pairing but would relish the value from the unexpected deuce tripping or quading, and the obvious commentary that would follow.
 
TheNutz4You

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I agree. I sometimes run into trouble and over value suited connectors and face cards when I should be folding pre OOP. I'm still learning the game, and trying to only value suited combos like they should be.
 
elitenuts

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so it's an old joke "But it was suited" is often used as a quote to describe bad players or bad thought processes.

We've all heard the chastising: "2 cards being suited only adds an average of 2% equity to your winning chances". and this seems to be aimed at discouraging "good" players from playing cards because they're suited.

Well... wait....2% can be a lot in certain situations that are borderline to begin with. And when you're playing with deep stacks being suited doesn't just add equity to your real chances of winning at showdown (which is what people mean when they quote the 2%) being suited often allows you to semibluff or float or barrel and win pots you wouldn't otherwise win. Just generally giving you reasons to continue in the hand and realize the equity of your hand without being bet out of the pot.

for example, you continue with a flush draw in position on the flop, you pick up a weak pair on the turn and call another bet. you miss the flush on the river but your opponent gives up with AK and that weak pair ends up winning at showdown. It was being suited that allowed you to continue to the river and realize the full equity of your hand, even though you didn't make a flush.

I think that as more and more players are learning and the game is getting harder and harder to beat, 2% edges can't be dismissed in assessing your preflop decision. Especially when you consider beating the rake and your post flop skill edge relative to the field.

thoughts?


Its hard to say either yes or no - Any 2 cards could be worth playing based on many factors - position, pot size, stack size, etc... that being said it is hard to justify playing cards JUST because they are suited like 63 or 72.

In regards to "chastising," I am a firm believer in keeping my mouth shut when it comes to others questionable play - If you really think someone is playing poorly the last thing you want to do is to point it out to them -
 
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