Is it possible to suck at 1/2 and 2/4 penny.....

But perform well at hight levels at like 10/20 cent or 25/25 cent.

I just can't seem to crack these mini micro-limit games.

I mean I do come out ahead.

But, it takes hours and hours to do so.

I have play have played many penny tables in the past.

And although I am ahead in all but paradise poker. down like 30 cents.

Well, actually techincally I am ahead because I started with $2 and now have $4.84

But, i was at $5.12 before I took a nose dive.

What all your thoughts on this.

I am about out of patience playing these no foldem games.

At this level, the game is based almost entirely on luck. Nobody folds anything and will play any 2 cards. It's almost like throwing your money in the pot and playing 7 card showdown - the best hand wins. This is a reason I don't play freerolls, folks don't play "properly" unless their own money is at stake. What you described is simply other folks being luckier than you.

How many times have you folded 7-2, 8-3, etc. and then the flop comes 7-7-2, or 8-3-3? Well, these folks play these hands and win on them...

That is true guys Ive experienced the same problems in the past playing micro limits, at first I wondered if it was just plain bad luck but no its not. Sure if you play tight you can win but you find that you get more hands suckered by rag calls in micro limits more often than not. At the end of the day although u can turn a profit its just not worth your time, try higher limits, u still get loose callers and rag hands but at least at a more sensible and tolerable level. Just make sure you have enough money to handle the swing.

Anthing's possible. :icon_comp

if there werent people playing those dumb hands, you wudnt hear as much about getting rivered, and it wud be harder to make a profit, so i say let them be =) more money input for serious players

I used to think that those games were all "luck" I have completely changed my mind. The maniac games are easier to beat than the tight games.... WHAT? That's right I even think that there isn't much point in moving much past the really loose games until you beat them consistentlly. TRUST me play a diciplined tight aggressive style, the most important part is postflop dicipline lay the losers down! TA means basically you play less than 20 percent of your hands and MOST of the hands you play you raise. If the hand is worth playing it is worth raising especially in the very loose micro games. You don't have to be a great player to CRUSH micro games, you just have to have the dicipline to play good hands, play them aggressively, and have the ability to FOLD when you are beaten. Sounds simple huh? Well it pretty much is.

I think its perfectly logical. I've played both penny and higher dollar and do better at the higher dollar. Even higher dollar SNG's are better than lower ones. Different types of players.

I was just watching UB tables just to see what cards people play. Its amazing. 3/5 in first position? and in EVERY single hand! His/Her stack just went up and down with no real improvement at all. We think people play poker by accepted methods... nope! LOL

There is a core point that what I said revolves around. There is a common opinion around that if a player is struggling to win the lowest limit poker games that they should "jump up" a limit or 2 and they will have more success. The best thing that can be said about this strategy is that it is misguided, the worst that can be said is that it is just plain stupid! Why would a player move up and play "better" players when they can not beat the worst players? The common answer is well my "bluffs" work. Trust me you might drag a pot or 2 early on against better players but very quickly they will adjust and crush you! The players who can not consistently win the smallest stakes games have no buisness playing higher stakes! I am not saying this for my own good trust me I love it when players get in over their heads at my table. I am telling you this to my detriment, DON'T PLAY BETTER PLAYERS TILL YOU CAN BEAT BAD OR LOOSE PLAYERS! If you can not beat the loose games you will just lose more money at higher stakes. If you learn how to beat the loose games you will be 10 times the player you would be if you just "skipped" the bad players and started playing the better ones. Oh and BTW more on this another time but LEARN LIMIT FIRST!!!!!

The way its said is -- if you can't win at higher limits, drop down to the next lower limit and so forth. Personally, I don't like the penny ante tables. I don't like sitting there and winning 12 cents a hand. Its boring to me and the higher limit tables have better players and better pots.

Everyone has to learn, play and win poker their way - whether its winning at higher limit tables or whatever. There's no set rule that you must go from penny to dollar to hundred dollar tables. Whatever works for a player is what the player should do. You can't fault anyone for playing their game. There's no pat way to learn and win at poker.

As soon as I jump back online, I'm going to the $1/$2 tables, just to make sure I can still rob them blind (its been 2.5 yrs.) And as soon as I am confident with it I'm moving to the $3/$6. If I can score a decent BB/100 ratio there in like 500 hands, I'm going right to $5/$10. There is where ill slow the progresion down and take a breather at that limit for a while. I won't leave $5/$10 until I have the bankroll for the higher limits. At 200 to 250 times the big bet, moving up is roughly a 5000.00 bankroll, definitely not peanuts.

*Edit*

The 5 grand bankroll is online only, not including cash games which will remain my bread and butter. I just want to make more money while I'm at home, instead of reading poker books and posting on forums. LOL

I think what needs to be understood is when I say I can't beat the 1/2 penny tables I am talking in the short term. In the long haul I am ahead. How much is what I am going to determine over the next month. This is day 4 of a 30 mission to see actually how well I am doing against 1/2 penny tables. For the 4th day straight I have come out ahead for every one hour session. The highest has been 1 hour win has been $0.56 cents and the lowest ahead was $0.08. Today. I walked away with another $0.12. Making my daily average so far of 11.875x the Big Bet. Now I am not saying I will maintain this average. There will most likely be some minus days. And even some days where I will have even larger win.

My question is what would you all considering crushing a level. 3x the Big Bet. 6x, 10x or even more than that. I have never seen any info on this.

I would say 6xBB per hour would be a good crushing BTW Hold'em are you using Poker Tracker to get your stats?

I disagree with the generally held theory about moving up levels. I think that the penny games are akin to Bingo so do not help your game play. You are more likely to develop bad habits than to develop winning strategies.

By moving up, you start to play poker and leave bingo behind. Some people even give you credit for raises and know how to read the board so bet accordingly.

I really don't think that you can compare a game where there are 6-8 caller pre-flop to one where there are 1 or two raises and 1-3 players participating.

Pre-and post flop play are just so completely different in the above examples, it is like chalk and cheese.

I say read up, save up and move up!

Yeah... X,

I am trying it Poker Tracker to see how it fits. The demo that lets you track 1000 hands only. I find some of the info a bit overwelming. But, I think it is helping me to see my wins and losses in a clear way.

Yes I agree with what u said X, Im just pointing out the fact that once u beat the penny tables there's no point in staying on. Im sure alot of us come out ahead all the time playing in those tables and I think it is harder to beat in a sense that penny players are more unpredictable and you get rags beat you alot but come out ahead we do almost all the time, but then you spend hours and hours winning like $1-$2 or even less and you start to think, whats the point, might as well move up unless you are comfortable with pennies.

I understand your stance completely Devil.... As a great man says, if you can't beat BAD players what makes you think you can beat good ones? This is a core point I wish to impress upon ALL micro players, if you can't beat the worst players DO NOT move up stakes until you can! I have my peers best intersts at heart here!:y:

I just want to make more money while I'm at home, instead of reading poker books and posting on forums. LOL

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Diabloblanco


Does that mean we won't be hearing from the great one as often as we do? The thought of not standing in your light as much makes me weep.:icon_sunn

Dont try more advanced plays in the micro limit games...play ABC poker straight up and you will kick some serious ass.

Thanks all for the input. I did well again today. Walked away from my hour session at with $0.43 cents. That is like 7 days in a row ahead. Even the day where I made all of 1 penny. LOL

Kinda getting scary though. I am use to catch a bad day where I will just not get good cards and give up 20 - 50 cents just in blind money and calls with average hands.

Kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I guess I shouldn't worry. It will probably make me over tighten if I do.

I did go like 35 hands I think losing like 12 cents of my gains which was about 34 cents at the time. Was getting a bit frustrated. K10 off started looking good to me.

Well, I stayed tight and bided my time. And I got some good hands to go from like 19 cents ahead to 43. So, my patience paid off.

I am beginning to lean toward Xd's position on this. When I first started this post I did not feel that way. But, I have since changed my position.

Perhaps my game has improved enough since I am doing better as of late against the 1/2 penny tables at UB. Perhaps it is just a matter that the Bad Beats are not getting to me as much so I am able to avoid going on tilt which helps me make more profit in the long run. Perhaps it is the increase in my overall agression which also is increasing my profits long term. At any rate over that last 2 months I have maintained a profit of about 7.5 the BB per hour playing 1/2 penny at UB. So, you could say I am doing fairly decently. However it always makes me leary when I go long periods without having a losing session. Although, I have been having a really bad time of it in the tourney arena. So, maybe that is where the balance is happening.

I do have some advice for the new player that is considering starting at the 1/2 or 2/4 penny tables. Keep in mind I am talking Limit not No Limit.

Get a book on Poker. Lee Jones' Winning Low Limit Holdem is one of the best books out there concerning low limit play. Even though he deals with 2/4 and 3/6 dollar limits, The concepts in his book work well in mirco and nanolimit games.

Sometimes it may seem like you aren't making much playing the way he suggests. But, over the long haul all those players that seem to be winning are in fact just riding a good streak. The wild play do nothing for you in the long run.

Don't try to get fancy at these levels. Semibluffs and Check raises are lost on the people you are playing against. They generally have no idea they are being bluffed and could care less. They will call your bluff way to often for it to be affective. Not to say you can never push people out of the pot. It is just a lot harder at these levels.

Play your solid hands agressively. Yes you will lose to suckouts in the short term. But, you stand to gain more profit over the long term by playing good hands with proper raising as opposed to playing them passively because you worry about getting sucked out.

In the long run the profits will outstrip the extra losses you incur from the suckouts.

Have a proper bankroll. At these levels it is vital that you maintain at least 300x the BB as a bankroll. I would suggest 600xx the BB.

So at a 2/4 cent level you should have no less than a $12 bankroll all the way up to $24.

Also, sit down with a proper buy in of 30 to 60x the BB. Again for the 2/4 penny table you should sit down with at least a $1.20 to play. $2.40 is even better here. It is not unusual at these level to go down 30x the BB because of the eratic play. Having a bankroll that can weather these swings is very important.

Lastly be ready to lose lots of hands to suckouts. That is just how things are. The better hands you play the more suckouts you will have to endure.

This is because you just won't be handing out many suckouts to the other players. When you win you will have the best hand much more often than not.

I dont think you people give enough credit to the people playing 2c and 4c games. These players rarley deposit there own money and are playing freerole wins (like i). You people say that the players in the freerolls dont play well enough, but they do! If you think about whats happening then youl know that. I guess you dont like having kk, putting in the correct size raise and then being beaten by a2. even though you raised enough to make the a2 call not worth it. (i do it all the time)
But it happens in $100stt's $5/$10 limit and loads in $10 multi tables. It happens loads. Its not becuase they are rubbish players. They havnt called with a2 for no reason! Theyre mtt strategy might hinge around getting a couple of loose (so called lucky) double ups at the start. Then they have 3x the starting stack, so theyle hang on for 45mins untill the blinds become 1/10th the starting stack, then theyle use there loose double ups to capitalise on the blinds and make it difficult for you. Your still sitting waiting and you hit an jj but they reraise you. (IN ANY NORMAL GAME YOU WOULD FOLD SHITTY JJ- your making the rubbish call) but you call and they show aq. they hit the queen, and you lose, but they arnt the one who was was making the rubbish call or raise. there stack is 4x yours but the chances of you winning is only 55% ie- they will win one out of two in one given mtt tourney around 45mins into the tourney. If they loose to you, then they they still have 3000 and youve doubled up to 2000. Then 15mins later they play exactley the same hand and hit it... they are up to 6000. Then you take another shot at your 55/45%, so you hit, your only at 4000, and your due to loose the next 55/45% and go all out becuase youv not got enough chips to be able to afford to lose.
Its all about their strategy. Lets take it over 3 $10mmt's out of 100 people which is a $1000 prizepool. First to ten get payed at least 3x the buy in.
That means that you only have to get in the top 10% 1/3 of the time.
Personally, i know that if i wait for the cards, and only play the cards i get and use all the blatent steals. (no risks) then i will only get payed about 1/5 times, and if i do il be around 9th or 8th.
Whereas, if i start all those and play it looser (playing a2, k4 etc) when i can get away with it then il lose 2ov them in the first ten players. But in the third one il be at about 5k whilst the avg is 1.5k at this point i can put pressure on players, take blinds, and afford to miss a 45/55% before i hit another one. When i get into that position them im almost guaranteed topp10 and that pays my 1/3. Chances are il get topp5, and thats where the profit comes from. +... i havnt wasted 2hours each in the other two only to finish 15th or 20th.
Does this make sence?
feel free to argue
sorry about the typos