Is it about time to have a shot clock in poker?

blkmoney12 · Apr 1, 2014

Do u think it is about time too have a shot clock in poker? The world poker tour has recently pooled its players and 80% agreed they should be a shot clock. How would the be implemented And how much time would u have. Has it come down to this> Are their better solution then too have a shot clock. With the constant taking in wsop events that i saw on tv maybe there should be a clock or is the solution too all of this relies o the players policing themselves. What do u think?

OzExorcist · Apr 1, 2014

Lots of places already have it - many of the cash games at my local casino do. Dealers use an ordinary kitchen timer for it.

Whether it's a good or a bad thing is neither here nor there in my opinion, as long as everybody knows what the deal is going in and they're all playing by the same rules.

teepack · Apr 7, 2014

I think in most tourneys you can eventually request a clock if your opponent is taking too long and then a timer starts. I know for the WSOP Tour, players are given at least 2 minutes before you can request a clock. The player will then be given one minute to make a decision or fold his cards automatically.

Carl Trooper · Apr 7, 2014

I think 2 minutes is more than enough time, and having the opportunity for an extra 1-2 minutes in a HUGE hand would be allowed.

Not sure how this would be implemented. Would be annoying as a dealer to keep looking down at a timer whenever new action starts.

But it is very frustrating when people take 3+ min per hand. It isn't fair to short stack players.

left52side · Apr 7, 2014

I have had to call the clock several times in live tournaments.
Especially when you are short stack close to ITM and chip leaders at the table seem to wait just on the blinds to increase.
I think there is A video where Daniel N. calls clock on somebody at WSOP for that reason.

OliverOliver · Apr 7, 2014

The main defense against it is that you can already call the clock in a tournament. The problem with that is that most people won't do it because they feel like they are being rude or whatever. I've played with people that take a ridiculous amount of time every play for no reason, but also there are times when it is justified taking that long (I'm sure we all have seen this). I wish it wasn't necessary, but I believe there are times when having a shot clock will be beneficial.

Maybe all this discussion about it will get the people causing the original problem to straighten up a bit? We can hope, if not, I think a shot clock is necessary.

IntenseHeat · Apr 7, 2014

I think it would suck to have to have a shot clock in poker. But between players Hollywooding for the cameras, those who have a hard time making decisions under pressure and players like Yevgeniy Timoshenko, who always takes, as Annette Obrestad put it, "an absurd amount of time", it may be necessary.

I'm from the school of thought that says study long, study wrong, which to me is like saying your first instinct is probably the correct one. I frequently do follow my first instinct, especially if my first instinct is to fold. If my first instinct is to call, then I may allow for a thirty second safety overrule, that says to ignore my instinct in favor of waiting for a less dangerous spot. Either way, I'm not going to agonize too much over any single decision. But then again, I'm not playing big buy-in tournaments with hundreds of thousands of dollars, or even millions at stake.

S3mper · Apr 7, 2014

Maybe they should make it to where you can only have the clock called on you 2 or 3 times in a tournament and after that you have to sit out for a round... I think it is ridiculous that people take so long I've only tanked a couple times in live MTT's and it wasn't a long tank like 10 seconds and they were tough spots..

There is no reason that this should be a huge problem though I know it is... If your tanking all the time it just tells me that you don't ever have a plan during your hands =o

That being said I've never had any problems with it live lol one time some one pulled a Moneymaker and didn't realize action was on him and I had to go "Did you check?" lol polite way of calling the clock

teepack · Apr 7, 2014

One time a guy who was the BB waited forever to fold his hand right before a break at a live tourney. I was next to him to his left, which meant I had the BB next hand, and I had the short stack, so I was wanting him to fold so we could get the next hand in before the break and before the levels went up. It was obvious what he was doing, because everybody else had folded to him except the one guy who had gone all-in and he even showed me his cards, which were like 8-5 off. He had no intention of calling, but he waited until the countdown clock was at zero before folding. Fortunately, I got the last laugh. I wound up coming back to win the tourney in a six-way chop. He wound up coming back from the break very late and missed a few hands, including the one in which he paid the SB. Then our table broke up, and he complained that he was short some chips. He eventually went out before we hit the money. I tell ya, Karma can be rough.

OzExorcist · Apr 7, 2014

Carl Trooper said:
Not sure how this would be implemented. Would be annoying as a dealer to keep looking down at a timer whenever new action starts.

In the instances I've seen the dealers seem to take it in stride pretty easily. The cash games where I've seen it implemented have a 30-second shot clock, but I don't think it's a precise 30 seconds. The dealer gives players about 20 seconds to act, and then get the timer out to count down the final 10 seconds if required. So they're not having to set/reset a timer every time someone takes a few seconds then folds.

You can also buy an extra 30 seconds for a dollar in those games, with that money going direct into the pot. When I've seen it implemented in tournaments each player generally gets a couple of free "extra time" buttons that they can use when they've got a difficult decision.

S3mper said:
Maybe they should make it to where you can only have the clock called on you 2 or 3 times in a tournament and after that you have to sit out for a round...

While I know what you're getting at, a system like that would be open to rampant abuse and angle shooting.

BadB420 · Apr 8, 2014

Yea there is nothing worse than having a short stack and just sitting there waiting for somebody to make a call that you know they have already decided what they are going to do 3 minutes ago!!! This happens a lot so I would be all for a shot clock, 2 minutes seems fair to me!

Game_Gran · Apr 14, 2014

This is a pretty popular topic. I've seen it on lots of forums and on Twitter. I'm not a big fan of shot clocks all the time. Perhaps introducing this concept at MTT final tables is a good idea because since the stakes are high in this situation, players may often take an unreasonable amount of time to make a decision.

IntenseHeat · Apr 14, 2014

Game_Gran said:
This is a pretty popular topic. I've seen it on lots of forums and on Twitter. I'm not a big fan of shot clocks all the time. Perhaps introducing this concept at MTT final tables is a good idea because since the stakes are high in this situation, players may often take an unreasonable amount of time to make a decision.

Don't know if I'm going to go along with this one, Gran. At the final table of an MTT each decision could mean the difference in what place go out in. Of course this is always the case. But being the final table, it could cost you a good little bit of money, depending on the buy-in. This is one of the situations in which I would expect to see players taking a little bit longer to make their decisions.

Game_Gran · Apr 14, 2014

I can accept that argument, IntenseHeat. Perhaps something along the line of a longer shot clock in this situation. I'm not crazy for or against, just posing a possibility.

fxdeuce · Apr 15, 2014

Sandbaggers: should be identified and penalized. Of course by the time they're identified it's usually too late for the short stack players in tournament play. It's nothing less than legal cheating in my book.

Drunks: no easy solution here, as a dealer we can ask they be cut off from more drinks and a good floorman will remove them from live cash games when they get too bad. I hate dealing to drunks.

Electronic devices: I wish they would disable wifi in poker rooms, but that will never happen. In am amazed at how may pros are playing games while in big money tournaments. Are they so good that they can afford not to pay 100% attention to the game? The WSOP allows it so that players can check stats on the tournament and play online poker on the Caesars Entertainment site.

Dealers are not allowed to call time on players and I would love to have a shot clock. Sometimes a player needs extra time to think about their decision, but players who abuse that privilege need to be identified and dealt with by the floor.
It's up to you players to help the game keep moving.

Carl Trooper · Apr 15, 2014

fxdeuce said:
Sandbaggers: should be identified and penalized. Of course by the time they're identified it's usually too late for the short stack players in tournament play. It's nothing less than legal cheating in my book.

Drunks: no easy solution here, as a dealer we can ask they be cut off from more drinks and a good floorman will remove them from live cash games when they get too bad. I hate dealing to drunks.

Electronic devices: I wish they would disable wifi in poker rooms, but that will never happen. In am amazed at how may pros are playing games while in big money tournaments. Are they so good that they can afford not to pay 100% attention to the game? The WSOP allows it so that players can check stats on the tournament and play online poker on the Caesars Entertainment site.

Dealers are not allowed to call time on players and I would love to have a shot clock. Sometimes a player needs extra time to think about their decision, but players who abuse that privilege need to be identified and dealt with by the floor.
It's up to you players to help the game keep moving.

People just get easily distracted. Once they fold a hand, they like to keep themselves occupied and do other things. Its not that they are "too good", just simply bored.

scorpion1367 · Apr 15, 2014

Carl Trooper said:
People just get easily distracted. Once they fold a hand, they like to keep themselves occupied and do other things. Its not that they are "too good", just simply bored.

This makes a lot of sense really especially if you are card dead , and it is 5 mins or more between hands.....scorp

onlinenat · May 4, 2014

Yes I think it needs a shot clock per say. I understand the theory that 1 minute is not enough time for some of the millor dollar decisions you are making, but I think time is taken advantage of by the pros. I see very few average or casual players stalling time

Zin · May 4, 2014

A shot clock and zero electronic devices at the table would be great for the game of poker.

babydrago9 · May 4, 2014

30 seconds is what is used mostly for a shot clock, but IMO for tough spots this is nowhere near enough time, and should have some sort of time bank or time card or something you can use whenever, but this may give away your holdings.
I think that there should JUST be a shot clock preflop of around 15 seconds to open, to get rid of any stupid tanking near the bubble or something, then have 30 seconds for players after the initial open to make there minds up. Post flop the only shot clock there should be if any is like 2 minutes imo.

Staneff · May 4, 2014

It`s good to have clock. Sometimes waiting 5 min for other player fold his hand is just way too much. Sometimes making decision what to do can be rly hard but no1 have the time to wait #online players, who choose what to do in 5 sec online and 5 min live, to make their decisions.

onlinenat · May 5, 2014

Zin said:
A shot clock and zero electronic devices at the table would be great for the game of poker.

I disagree with no electronic devices I think you would lose a lot of the casual poker players with that rule. Also almost all poker players listen to some type of music during play which I think is perfectly ok

Peteyweestro · May 6, 2014

I think the worst thing about this whole situation is that some people can sit there and take a long ass time to play and it is just because they know it is completely getting under everyone else's skin.

BigJamo · May 6, 2014

Sounds like a great idea.

JPoling · May 23, 2014

Who needs a shot clock? Just have Tiffany Michelle play at your table and you will be fine

Is it about time to have a shot clock in poker?

blkmoney12

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OzExorcist

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Carl Trooper

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