Interesting that the popular TV pros have never won the WSOP

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RickAversion

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The Agassi looking guy (Negreanu). Ivey. Helmuth. Dwan Spock. Farha, etc.
Assuming these are the best players, it just goes to show how much randomness and luck is involved with winning an 8000 person tournament.
Also notice that almost no one ever wins twice, except in decades past where there were like 20 players.
 
SicKBeATz

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You do understand that all of those players I believe maybe with the exception of Farha and Dwan (not sure if they've won one or not) have won a bracelet at the wsop right? And Helmuth has a Main Event WSOP win along with 12 other bracelets.

Also Farha came in 2nd to Chris Moneymaker the yr he won and started the poker boom ;)
 
sam1chips

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Very true, think about it in another sense...

Professional sports leagues (NFL/MLB/NBA) usually have around 30 teams, and these teams rarely repeat. Now granted, teams and players can improve from season to season (as can poker players, fyi...), but even still, teams don't win back-to-back very often.

Now the NCAA March Madness tournament, which is composed of 346 Division 1 Basketball teams. There are a couple of teams that have back-to-back "good runs", but very rarely win it all twice in a row.

Now look at the WSOP. With more than 6,000 competitors, there have been a couple notable players to make back-to-back runs recently (Matt Affleck). But for the most part you are not gonna be able to guess at the very beginning, out of the field of 6,000+ people who is gonna be the one to win.

...But don't get confused and think that the WSOP is a crapshoot. Look at all of the players that made it to the WSOP final table in 2012, and even in the top 100. All good, accomplished players. Obviously, in order to get that far, you do need to get a little lucky/run good...
 
sam1chips

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You do understand that all of those players I believe maybe with the exception of Farha and Dwan (not sure if they've won one or not) have won a bracelet at the WSOP right? And Helmuth has a Main Event WSOP win along with 12 other bracelets.

Also Farha came in 2nd to Chris Moneymaker the yr he won and started the poker boom ;)

Right, they just don't have any Main Event bracelets. I'm pretty sure Hellmuth has won a couple bracelets...:D
 
SicKBeATz

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Right, they just don't have any Main Event bracelets. I'm pretty sure Hellmuth has won a couple bracelets...:D

Phil won the main event vs Chan in 89. I believe Phil Ivey final tabled it not too long ago if I'm not mistaken. Very unlikely to see anyone win b2b again with as many runners as there are. We'd probably be lucky just to see a former main event champion to win it again :eek:
 
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I doubt anyone is ever gonna repeat again with the huge fields now a days....and atleast from what ive seen half of the so called pros make bad plays all the time
 
OzExorcist

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Something I find interesting is how little it actually means to win the Main Event these days in terms of player profile.

It used to be that everyone who won the Main Event became an instant superstar and celebrity in the poker world - take someone like Joe Hachem, for example. We've all heard of him, even though he was just an amateur before he won and let's face it, he really hasn't done a great deal of note since either.

As I sit typing this now though, I honestly can't even remember the name of whoever won last year - was it Greg something? I do remember Pius Heinz from the year before (must be that damn annoying chant his fans had that drilled it into my brain) but I reckon he could probably walk into most poker rooms in the world and at best he'd just get "Hey, isn't that the guy that won the main event?" from the majority of players.

I guess after Jamie Gold and Hachem and Jerry Yang and Darvin Moon we've seen that running deep in, and even winning, the Main Event alone doesn't make you a player worth being interested in.

...with the exception of Farha and Dwan (not sure if they've won one or not)...

Farha has three bracelets, all in Omaha ($2500 PLO in 1996, $5000 O8 in 2006 and $10K O8 in 2010).

Dwan has no bracelets and no Main Event cashes - though keep in mind, we wasn't even eligible to play in the WSOP until 2008. His best WSOP result to date is a second place finish in a $1500 NLHE donkament in 2010 (a result which still had the high-stakes poker world crapping its pants over all the money they'd owe Dwan in side bets if he won.
 
cool32steve

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Dan Harrington final tabled back to back in 2003 and 2004.
 
valientone

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I agree there is alot of ''Randomness'' how you put it , but all in all it is a very possible feat.. try to get your money in on and win on your 60/40's and try to avoid hands your not sure of , unless your trying to bet from behind the button.. alot a times a well placed coin flip with A10 or higher might be the route you want to take.. A LOOOOT of luck is going to have to be involved.. and even more skill...... but as Cool32steve pointed out.. Dan harrington hit final tables back to back... and there are plenty of others... I heard Phil Gordon giving a lecture once that was amazing on winning back to back multi-table tournaments.. So even if it does seem impossible. your gonna want to go for it..
Thats part of the prestige and fun of the game.. and getting your name known for being one of the Luckiest people in the world, wouldnt be to bad either.. Hope that builds your motivation up a little bit buddy
 
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I agree there is alot of ''Randomness'' how you put it , but all in all it is a very possible feat.. try to get your money in on and win on your 60/40's and try to avoid hands your not sure of , unless your trying to bet from behind the button.. alot a times a well placed coin flip with A10 or higher might be the route you want to take.. A LOOOOT of luck is going to have to be involved.. and even more skill...... but as Cool32steve pointed out.. Dan harrington hit final tables back to back... and there are plenty of others... I heard Phil Gordon giving a lecture once that was amazing on winning back to back multi-table tournaments.. So even if it does seem impossible. your gonna want to go for it..
Thats part of the prestige and fun of the game.. and getting your name known for being one of the Luckiest people in the world, wouldnt be to bad either.. Hope that builds your motivation up a little bit buddy

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needaGF

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You mean the WSOP ME rite? It is a big game with thousands of entrants held only once per year. The huge variance of the tourney makes that not every top player has the luck to get the bracelet.
 
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Dan Harrington final tabled back to back in 2003 and 2004.

Even this might be some random luck. With thousands of players, over a long enough timeline, odds are that eventually someone will randomly win back to back.
 
ckickenking

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I don't see what is so interesting about Popular pro not winning a WSOP main event. Seriously, luck plays a major role, with over 8000 players, variance is going to get you. You can have pocket AA's every single hand and not win some. The more players you play against the more luck you need, but don't get me wrong, skills is a huge part of it too. Too many LAG players out there now a days
 
vinylspiros

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skill is overestimated when playing MTT's. Of course it will get you deeper in the tourney and closer to the bigger money but truth is that skill alone does not outweigh luck IMO. When your playing a high buy in MTT like the sunday million or even the 1050$ super tuesday, the majority of the players all have great"SKILLS". But the winner of the tourney is the one whos skills wont bump into bad luck.

Thats just how i see it. Lets be honest here. Most online tournamnet regs know that u shouldnt raise with junk from under the gun and that the BB might shove when u raise from the button and blablabla BUT, at the end of the day the winner will be the one who was LUCKY at that flip that mattered most.

Im not saying that skill doesnt exist,all im saying is that without luck,it wont take you too far.
 
Poker Orifice

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Even this might be some random luck. With thousands of players, over a long enough timeline, odds are that eventually someone will randomly win back to back.
over a long enough timeline someone will flip a coin and have it come up Heads 100x in-a-row!! Or maybe even 1,000x in-a-row! (maybe it's been done already?)
Wow it's amazing!!!
 
Poker Orifice

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skill is overestimated when playing MTT's. Of course it will get you deeper in the tourney and closer to the bigger money but truth is that skill alone does not outweigh luck IMO. When your playing a high buy in MTT like the sunday million or even the 1050$ super tuesday, the majority of the players all have great"SKILLS". But the winner of the tourney is the one whos skills wont bump into bad luck.

Thats just how i see it. Lets be honest here. Most online tournamnet regs know that u shouldnt raise with junk from under the gun and that the BB might shove when u raise from the button and blablabla BUT, at the end of the day the winner will be the one who was LUCKY at that flip that mattered most.

Im not saying that skill doesnt exist,all im saying is that without luck,it wont take you too far.
meh.
Most online tournamnet regs know that u shouldnt raise with junk from under the gun and that the BB might shove when u raise from the button and blablabla < this is the super basics though.
Also, Sunday Million field is definitely not comparable to Super Tuesday ainec
 
vinylspiros

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meh.
Most online tournamnet regs know that u shouldnt raise with junk from under the gun and that the BB might shove when u raise from the button and blablabla < this is the super basics though.
Also, Sunday Million field is definitely not comparable to Super Tuesday ainec
of course it isnt the same. i just wanted to say that higher buy in tourneys usually have more experienced players(not saying that the bad ones dont exist of course).

ok these are the super basics i agree. Im saying that many players do the same thing in mtt's. they follow the mtt strategy . stealing blinds.restealing . pressuring small stacks when close to bubble. Point is that luck is heavily needed in mtt's sooner or later regardelss of how perfectly someone might be playing. am i not correct?
 
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i have played poker with some very good players and am convinced that many of the worlds best players have never even entered a wsop event. but to be sure you are not going to win it if you are hoping for luck to carry you through. you gotta have luck for sure but gotta be good also
 
vinylspiros

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yea man ,of course you have to be good. NO DOUBT in my mind about that. that is a prerequisite though. You have to be good & lucky at certain points though.thats what im saying.
 
Poker Orifice

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of course it isnt the same. i just wanted to say that higher buy in tourneys usually have more experienced players(not saying that the bad ones dont exist of course).
Just that sun mill might not be the best example because it has a ton of donks in it, many who's satellited in. Also structure is pretty fast in later levels. (stacks are not deep at all in late game).
Sunday 500 is a good example of a tough field of regs.
 
Kenzie 96

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i have played poker with some very good players and am convinced that many of the worlds best players have never even entered a wsop event. but to be sure you are not going to win it if you are hoping for luck to carry you through. you gotta have luck for sure but gotta be good also[/




Words have meaning & context. The word many, as used above, is incorrect.
 
vinylspiros

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i have played poker with some very good players and am convinced that many of the worlds best players have never even entered a wsop event. but to be sure you are not going to win it if you are hoping for luck to carry you through. you gotta have luck for sure but gotta be good also[/




Words have meaning & context. The word many, as used above, is incorrect.
now thats some deep thinking.:p
 
aero87

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These tournaments are held once a year and have thousands of people enter. You can not be consistent. Luck plays too much of a role in large fields. Eventually you are going to get a cooler or bad beat or make the wrong decisions.
 
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