Originally Posted by Reducto
I don't have any casinos where I live so if I want a live game I'm stuck with the occasional home game or a $20 pub tournament where the play is pretty sloppy. Most players have never played in a casino so they don't know all the rules. Lots of looking at other peoples' mucked hands, string bets, coaching each other, pulling back out of turn bets, etc. There are no dealers and the guy running the game pretty much leaves it up to the players to decide things for themselves.
One hand in particular really bugged me because I was in the big blind with a medium strength hand and the blinds had gotten pretty high. It went like this:
Player 1 folds
Player 2 looks at cards, puts them back down past his chip stack and leans back
Player 3 folds, then mixes his cards in with the other 4 making it impossible to tell which were which
Player 2 grabs the stack of 6 cards and tries to fish his back out saying he didn't intend to fold
I object, he suggests the other 2 players pick their cards out so it's clear he's getting the same ones. The other 2 players don't seem to quite remember what their cards were so it takes them a minute to each settle on the two they had. In my mind, his cards should be dead for 2 reasons - his cards were mixed with others, and he looked at 4 mucked cards before making his decision. Nobody else at the table agreed with me so he was allowed to play on, making a huge raise that I couldn't call.
I give about a 5% chance that the players were working together. Most likely he was being honest and really did have the cards he claimed and simply didn't think to protect his cards, which nobody does in this game.
What would you do? Go with the flow, argue, keep gently lobbying for rules or simply stop going to that game?
We actually have some casinos around here (Oklahoma), but I don't ever have the chance to make it out that way From what I can tell, you were completely correct in objecting (no doubt). Of the 3, player 1 was the only one that did anything correctly as he folded. Then players 2 & 3 only added to the mess
player 2 placed the cards past his chip stack, w/out protecting them & not verbally announcing any attentions..I would've assumed (as the dealer) that he was folding the hand. Player 3 clearly folded, but in doing so, mixed both his cards + player 2's in the discard pile. Bad thing there is that the dealer (or whoever is dealing) should remove any
folded cards from the playing area as not to confuse them with the other "live" cards. At this point, player 2 shouldn't have been allowed to remove any
cards from the pile..(SOL dude)
I agree totally. The cards were mucked + he looked at the other sets of folded cards..giving him an advantage (cheating)
. If anything, you should've been given the chance to see the other folded cards as he was allowed to. Otherwise, IMO
, 5% that they were working together may be ok, BUT
I kinda think it's more like 75%-85% that he was looking for some sort of advantage...and got one Was he being honest, dunno? Why go threw all that trouble when the dealer had the option to simply stop the hand in play and redeal a new one?
Not sure if I'd press the issue, although it depends on your surroundings (and whether or not you'll see any beer bottles flying instead of cards). Looking for another game is always