I want to start a poker career? advice please?

Hey guys, Ive been playing poker all my life but been playing at casinos for 3 years now. I want to start making a living of this, i know im good and can do well.i just wanted to ask people if they have any tips of giving poker a go for a career? i usally play at a $2/$3 table with a 300 dollar max buy in.
I started a logbook so i can monitor my losses and wins and though ive only been to the casino twice im $210 profit, which i know is hardley a career but its something.... these are the following questions i would like answers to?

1) when it is time to leave? i have a habbit with getting a huge stack early and losing it slowley over the next 5 hours or so, i dont want to go to the casino for 30 min and then just leave. to me that sounds boring and i love playing poker. like a few days ago i bought in with 500 and made it all the way up 1200 very quickly i had AA and he had KK and we were all in pre flop. anyway i lost a good 500 over the next 4 hours not playing any big hands and left with 160 profit which sucked since i was 700 up.

2) How do you reset yourself? I was playing a cash game and no joke i folded 3 hands in a row... first hand i had 7,8 and i would of floped a straight, second hand i had Q,3 and would of floped a fullhouse, third hand i had 2,7 and would of floped trips? I was trying to calm myself down but couldnt get over it, since the all the pots were huge and i could of made alot of money. any tips for simply reseting in times like this or bad beats?
3) just any tips at all for trying to make a living of this?

Thanks guys all coments are very valuable.

I hate to be overly blunt, but seriously, keep your day job.

This isn't saying that you are a poor poker player at all. It's not about that. It's about swings of the game. I would say IF you had SIX FULL MONTHS of cash in the bank (and not as part of your bankroll) to cover all expenses which includes a deep emergency fund, then you may think about using poker as a means of income. Oh...and IF you have good record keeping (good job on keeping a journal of wins/losses) where you have shown a profit of covering your monthly bills 2X over each month for a year....then I would consider dropping the day job and trying a go at poker.

Some glaring facts about what you've listed: If you can remember an individual bad beat that ruined your night, you haven't played enough yet. If you can recall a string of hands garbage hands that would have hit the flop, you haven't played enough. Those things happen all the time, and where having an excellent memory on games played is crucial, it cannot be allowed to have an effect on your psyche. If you have looking for ways to control tilt, you haven't played enough.

You just need time to prove to yourself and time to see if you have what it takes. Talk to most poker players and the grind starts to kill them. It's all fun now, but 40+, 50+, 80+ hours at a table/online gets old and you can lose your focus.

Push hard for your goals, but continue to read some of the other grinders' advice out there...poker is a fun game, but isn't a career for everyone.

Best of luck,
Vollycat

If you are ready to be a pro, then you should know the answer and even have strong opinions on each of the three points you listed. Why would it bother you folding Q3, 78, and 72 in a row? That is standard. I mean maybe you can play from unopened position or if it was 78 suited with a fam pot, but otherwise those are hands to dump, like instantly without thinking about it even.

The only time to leave is when you aren't a favorite to win. Usually live you are sitting with people who don't know WTF they are doing, but if you happen to find yourself surrounded by known regs, it might be time to leave. If you just took a bad beat and are tilted, maybe leave, but hopefully you can deal with it and keep up the good play and get your money back.

Advice for going pro: Have a backup plan. You at least need to have some money lying around to cover expenses, otherwise get a part time job or something to guarantee some income. Work at Starbucks, you get insurance. Something.
Also don't let the money effect your mood, your play, or your life really.

maybe im not talking about pro, maybe i dont know what im talking about. All i ment was going to the casino most days of the week to take a couple hundred dollars each day. I just wanted some advice before i start taking poker seriously.
how do both of you guys control tilt, im just wondering?

Vollycat said:

If you can remember an individual bad beat that ruined your night, you haven't played enough yet. If you can recall a string of hands garbage hands that would have hit the flop, you haven't played enough. Those things happen all the time, and where having an excellent memory on games played is crucial, it cannot be allowed to have an effect on your psyche. If you have looking for ways to control tilt, you haven't played enough.

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thank you this really put my mind into perpective. i obviously havent played enough. I dont plan on quitting my job any time soon, just wanted to take poker seriously and win some money. and wanted some advice on how to do that.

Read Dusty Schmidt's book, "Treat Your Poker Like A Business".

I dont plan on quitting my job any time soon, just wanted to take poker seriously and win some money. and wanted some advice on how to do that.

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This is the way I would tell you to take things. Again, I really don't want to put a wet blanket on any aspiration you may have, but perspective is huge. For every 1 Tom Dwan out there that has made it, I'd guess there are tens of thousands that have tried and failed.

Keep learning. Take JamesDaBear's advice and read read read. Play. Play a lot. Both live and online. You won't have a good idea about your game play until after about 100,000 hands...and then you need another zero on that to truly get a feel for how your game can be honed into a weapon. Figure out the best way for you to become successful through learning other strategies and how they apply to given situations. Soon, AA getting cracked isn't a story, it's just another day at the office.

Cheers,
Vollycat

David_Lill said:

maybe im not talking about pro, maybe i dont know what im talking about. All i ment was going to the casino most days of the week to take a couple hundred dollars each day. I just wanted some advice before i start taking poker seriously.
how do both of you guys control tilt, im just wondering?

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Thinking about winning daily is the wrong perspective. Cash is more like one long game where you take breaks between individual sessions, and how much you win over the long run is what counts. Plus there will be days when circumstances combine to make it impossible to win no matter how well you play.

As for taking poker seriously, that involves a lot more than playing regularly. A lot is away from the tables. Studying / learning and reviewing your play come to mind immediately, and they're not the only things.

if your still at the stage when you start getting frustratd or tilt because your 27o would have hit trips if only you had called that 5x raise then you just have not played enough, these thing should not even bother you in the slightest, its a fold, you know its right to fold, then what happens on the flop means absolutely nothing

keep playing tons of hands and those feelings will go away, but for the meantime i would not take poker too seriously if your at that stage

good luck

couldnt agree more with most of these posts...along with a good roll, you'll def need mental discipline, anger management, and a short memory for 'missed opportunities' or else you're just gonna get eaten alive

Aaahhh, the Crown $2/$3 game. I play in it a few times a month

As others have said above, it's too early to know if you're even profitable in these games, let alone worry about giving up your day job. I've had nights where I've left that game up over $500 and it's a great feeling. But there are also going to be nights where you leave down a few hundred, or you've played six hours just to break even, and you don't feel so great.

My advice would be just keep playing in the game and try to play your best, but don't put too much pressure on yourself in terms of trying to achieve certain results in order to achieve a certain pay rate or something - see how you go over time.

To address your specific questions:

1 - There are a few indicators that it's time to leave the table. If you're too tired to concentrate, or you're distracted or not playing your best for whatever reason, it's absolutely time to leave. If your table has gone bad (as in all the fish have busted) it time to go too, or at least think about changing tables.

I like to look around my table from time to time and ask myself a simple question: "where can I make money here?" If I see a player who's willing to call three streets with middle pair, that's a spot where I can make money. If I see a player who routinely calls early streets then folds to big river bets, that's a spot I can make money. If all I see are difficult regs and nits who won't part with any money unless we somehow get into a monster v monster spot against them then it's time to move.

2 - Play enough and you'll hardly even notice those spots any more. What you're experiencing is selective recall: your brain is reminding you of the one time out of a hundred where you folded a junk hand and it would have made you money. What it's not reminding you of is the other 99 times when you folded that hand when it would have missed everything and cost you money. Just think long term.

3 - Be honest with yourself and keep accurate records of how much you're really making/losing over a long period. You need accurate information to make a big decision like this.

Get your day job until you have at least 1 year expenses set aside and a really really deep bankroll.

David_Lill said:

Hey guys, Ive been playing poker all my life but been playing at casinos for 3 years now. I want to start making a living of this, i know im good and can do well.i just wanted to ask people if they have any tips of giving poker a go for a career? i usally play at a $2/$3 table with a 300 dollar max buy in.
I started a logbook so i can monitor my losses and wins and though ive only been to the casino twice im $210 profit, which i know is hardley a career but its something.... these are the following questions i would like answers to?

1) when it is time to leave? i have a habbit with getting a huge stack early and losing it slowley over the next 5 hours or so, i dont want to go to the casino for 30 min and then just leave. to me that sounds boring and i love playing poker. like a few days ago i bought in with 500 and made it all the way up 1200 very quickly i had AA and he had KK and we were all in pre flop. anyway i lost a good 500 over the next 4 hours not playing any big hands and left with 160 profit which sucked since i was 700 up.

2) How do you reset yourself? I was playing a cash game and no joke i folded 3 hands in a row... first hand i had 7,8 and i would of floped a straight, second hand i had Q,3 and would of floped a fullhouse, third hand i had 2,7 and would of floped trips? I was trying to calm myself down but couldnt get over it, since the all the pots were huge and i could of made alot of money. any tips for simply reseting in times like this or bad beats?
3) just any tips at all for trying to make a living of this?

Thanks guys all coments are very valuable.

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I think there are a few indicators that you're not ready to take this up full time.

Not to sound cruel, but if you're doubling up and then losing it slowly then i think you're just riding variance and getting lucky during flips but are bleeding out chips when you don't have good hands.

Also the mindset of being annoyed for folding junk only to flop the world if you'd have stayed in is totally the wrong mentality. Being results orientated is really bad - being annoyed that you didn't play 7-deuce because you flopped the world is a really bad way to rationalise the game.

Take a step back, work on your game and get the live hours under your belt - going to the casino twice is nowhere near enough.

Good luck and play well.

I cant imagine, that a poker player can make a living by the very slow one-tabling live in the casino ?! The long run comes too slowly...

Daniel72 said:

I cant imagine, that a poker player can make a living by the very slow one-tabling live in the casino ?! The long run comes too slowly...

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Thats how it used to be done. Tournies had next to no money in them and the pros certainly weren't playing online in the 60's, 70's etc.

Yeah keep your day job. Although I think if anyone wants a career in poker then online is the way to go. A decent player can easily make $15 an hour at 25nl with the right volume and thats at the micros.

David_Lill said:

Hey guys, Ive been playing poker all my life but been playing at casinos for 3 years now. I want to start making a living of this, i know im good and can do well.i just wanted to ask people if they have any tips of giving poker a go for a career? i usally play at a $2/$3 table with a 300 dollar max buy in.
I started a logbook so i can monitor my losses and wins and though ive only been to the casino twice im $210 profit, which i know is hardley a career but its something.... these are the following questions i would like answers to?

1) when it is time to leave? i have a habbit with getting a huge stack early and losing it slowley over the next 5 hours or so, i dont want to go to the casino for 30 min and then just leave. to me that sounds boring and i love playing poker. like a few days ago i bought in with 500 and made it all the way up 1200 very quickly i had AA and he had KK and we were all in pre flop. anyway i lost a good 500 over the next 4 hours not playing any big hands and left with 160 profit which sucked since i was 700 up.

2) How do you reset yourself? I was playing a cash game and no joke i folded 3 hands in a row... first hand i had 7,8 and i would of floped a straight, second hand i had Q,3 and would of floped a fullhouse, third hand i had 2,7 and would of floped trips? I was trying to calm myself down but couldnt get over it, since the all the pots were huge and i could of made alot of money. any tips for simply reseting in times like this or bad beats?
3) just any tips at all for trying to make a living of this?

Thanks guys all coments are very valuable.

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If you cant get over folding three garbage hands pre-flop then your not even close to becoming a pro. ( I folded 2-3 and the flop came 2-2-3!!! ****! ) Get over it man! your not suppose to call anyways - get your head straight and move on to the next hand. WHEN you improve and i mean WHEN aquire a bankroll. For your game ( 2,3 300 nl ) i'd say 6-8k would be good. Two times at a casino is basically nothing. Play a couple 8-12 hour sessions for a few months then see if you still want to become pro and if your a winning player.

You asked how do you know when to leave.

At my job I make a set amount of money per day and I leave when my 8 hours are up. If you are playing as a pro with no other income I imagine the answer would be that you need to play until you have made enough to be your income. Not sure if that makes sense but it sure won't help to pay the bills if you leave when you are shorter than what is needed to get the bills paid.

kmixer said:

You asked how do you know when to leave.

At my job I make a set amount of money per day and I leave when my 8 hours are up. If you are playing as a pro with no other income I imagine the answer would be that you need to play until you have made enough to be your income. Not sure if that makes sense but it sure won't help to pay the bills if you leave when you are shorter than what is needed to get the bills paid.

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The trouble with this is poker simply doesn't work like a day job - there are going to be days where you can play for 24 hours straight and finish behind, either because you're running bad, you're playing bad or there just aren't any fish to take money from. On those days, trying to stay at the table until you've made your "daily income" will only set you back.

On the flipside, there are going to be days when you're running great and you've got fish at your table who just keep dipping into their pockets and bringing out more money. On those days you'd be insane to get up and leave just because you've reached your "daily income" level. You want to stay in that game for as long as it remains good and you can keep your eyes open.

Lots of good response ITT, you can certainly see the quality ones.

Just a thought on your 3 folded hands, even tho it has been touched on. When you fold, your decision is made, and the reason you made it is the only factor that matters. If you called an all in pre with AA and the other player flips over 27 and the flop comes 777, do you think you made a bad call? So what ever happens after your decision is irrelevant. Only your decision is of any importance. Since you didnt post any detailed HH it is hard to say if the folds were the best decision, and in the 7 8 hand there are certainly times to play it. Even the other hands can be played in the right situation, but probably your folds were good, and then you need to find some amusement in those insane flops that turn your trash into gold. But to then call a raise and 2 callers with 2 7 cause it flopped so good last time is, well,, I think you get what I am saying.

Tilt is the time to get up. If you are tilting, get up. If you cant see those 3 hands w/o starting to let it influence your play, get up. As stated, your money won is not any reason to get up if you are playing well or conditions are good. However, if you lose and start to chase your losses, get up.

Tips for reseting??? Well, I am prone to tilt. Since I play primarily online, I have a rule (sometimes). When I start to tilt, I put all tables on "sit out next blind" or, if I am tilting bad, I hit the off switch on my PC. But, I also try to work through tilt now, If I notice any sign, and I am now pretty aware - which was not always the case, so it important to understand if you can play on tilt and not see it - then I take the good old dep breaths, try to see any humor in the situation (he limps, I raise with AA, he 3 bets, I 4 bet shove, he calls and flips J9o, and the flop comes J9x and he holds) I mean, sure, you want to scream YOU DONK HOW CAN YOU CALL A SHOVE WITH THAT??? But, seriously, if you were watching a game, wouldnt you double up in laughter at that play? So see the humor. If your decisions are good, then realize there is a lot of satisfaction you can get from that.

David, about folding the nuts, some sites use continuous shuffle, full tilt poker is one of them, 888 does not I think.. and about starting a career I would say get $10.000 and play $100 tournaments with some $215 like the sunday mega deep, few players, great value. Oh yeah I would suggest you to play tournaments instead ;-)
Wish you become a pro, GL GL

try doing tourneys every week if you can, that's what i do. sometimes i make it to the money, often i don't. if you can afford them, for example the casino i go to, the same ppl play in the tourneys so it's easy to get to know how they play. if you can get in the money most of the time, you can make it a supp income

PayDayLoans said:

David, about folding the nuts, some sites use continuous shuffle, Full Tilt Poker is one of them, 888 does not I think.. and about starting a career I would say get $10.000 and play $100 tournaments with some $215 like the sunday mega deep, few players, great value. Oh yeah I would suggest you to play tournaments instead ;-)
Wish you become a pro, GL GL

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An impressive bump indeed!
Do ya think 'David' will be reading this? Thread is a year old & David hasn't been on the site for 10mos.

I bye no means am a pro and dont claim to have knowlage to speak but the first thing I would speak on is that if you find yourself up and have more than doubled you buyin and cant bring yourself to leave you lack enough disipline to turn pro. Secondly I would say that if your not folding hands that would have been winners multiple times over the course of a session then your playing way to many hands.

Hey, Dave... are you and the wife gonna be at the dinner party tomorrow?