I Suck at online poker

tgarner

tgarner

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I am killing myself trying to figure this out.
I play my local live games and just kill them, easy reads and the whole ball of wax. When I go play a live game around here, it's like pay me.
But when I play online, I SUCK, to put it lightly.
Don't get me wrong, I lose once in a while live, but it's rare.
What is so much different?
I feel like the flop never goes my way and when I get check raised and call, they still have the better hand with starting trash.
What do I do, my online stats suck, but I love playing?
Do I just play the private games for fun and save my br, or will it change, I'm going nuts here and don't know what to do. lol
 
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Craig0501

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I feel your pain.

I am relatively new to online play but I have been playing live games for a couple years now and generally do pretty well. However, when I play online I just seem to get nothing.

I think my problem is that I play too many hands. After playing for an hour I seem to loose my discipline and maybe call starting hands when I am out of position which I shouldn't.

I also think I am maybe not yet used to the faster pace of online play compared to live games and this sometimes leads me to miss-read the table and get beat due to my error.

I don't know if this helps you but I thought I would share my experience - If anyone has any advice for me too I would appreciate it.
 
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cAPSLOCK

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I think you are experiencing a fairly common thing. There are several reasons I think this happens. I don;t know what combination of these are your particular burden.

1. You are not as good at poker as you think you are.

2. online poker is a significantly different game than live poker. The way the game plays is just different. You have to find tells in betting patterns alone. Of course this is where your best "tells" come from in the first place. Many of the good players out here are playing a very mathematical game, more based on running stats on their competition.

3. Your competition is better at the stakes you play. A live $1 ring game or a live $50 tourney is softer than an online one at the same level.

4. You have yet to adjust to the difference in the players. Your competition is all ages, from all around the world, and the play will be more varied than your local live games.

It is hard to adjust when you are blind and don't know it. Your comfort-game is live. You've developed a way to beat the games you play, and it doesn;t work in an online game, and you can't see clearly why that is yet.

If you are truly good at poker... hang in and you'll adjust to this new game.

If you are not.. hang in and you will learn.

Win win! :)
 
cardplayer52

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live is just plain easier. ive been through this too i win live and lost lots online. reads are so much easier live. you have so much more to see hear you can even engage them in conversation. where online its maybe a timing tell that could be lag or something totall different. the level of play is so much better online. you might beat $1/$2 at the local ring game or casino but online your playing pro's at this level not tourist out for a good time. tracking software pokerstove notes charts etc so much stuff is used online that wouldnt be allowed live. stick with the online play though it will only make your live game that much stronger.
 
aliengenius

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Some things to consider (from here):

First things first: more donks do not make you lose. It might increase your variance, but playing against poor player is not going to turn you from a winning player to a losing player.

Let's look at some reasons why you might win live, but not online:

1. You are not really a winning player live. Yes, it's very possible that you misremember the amount of your wins live, unless you are disciplined enough to keep a detailed log of your live play. Pretty basic human psychology to tend to forget your loses and remember your wins. You "forget" your trips to the ATM and all those tournament sessions where you didn't cash live. Online, you can't lie to yourself: your account balance is right there in black and white, and making another deposit often involves a bit of effort that isn't easily forgotten.

Also, your live game sample may not be big enough to determine if you are a winning player yet. Statements like "I usually cash in 2 out of 3 tournaments I play live" are clearly ridiculous. This is a short term run of good luck, as not even the best players in the world can make a claim like this. But if you have only played about ten tournaments it's not out of the question that a positive variance like this could occur.

2. Live players are actually worse than online players. This has been my experience at least: $1/$2 NL live plays like one cent/two cent online. As for tournaments, if you are not doing research and seeking out a good structure, most live tournaments are much more luck contingent due to small starting stacks and fast blind levels. Without a doubt there is a higher percentage of good players online that you are likely to encounter as opposed to playing live. Your local cardroom might have a few expert players, but it's likely that you don't cross paths that often due to shear numbers, or simply them playing at different stakes than you. Not so online: there are a lot more players who know what they are doing, and that you are likely to encounter, even at the lowest stakes.

3. Less "distraction" live. You are pretty much constantly reminded that you are playing poker, where as on the computer you have different distractions like e-mail, cardschat (!), etc. Live has it's own distractions, sure (Venetian cocktail waitresses anyone :D?) but the point is that you are not going to lose your main focus of actually playing poker. There is a very clear line about "what you are doing" when you are at a cardroom: playing poker. Online, this isn't the case, as you can be multitasking to your detriment. While doing several things at once can help some people and prevent them from playing too loosely due to boredom, it can have a negative effect on others.

4. Lower stakes online. You might not take the game as seriously, or play to your "A" level if you are only playing a $5 tournament as opposed to buying in live for $120.

5. Extra removal from the actual money. It's been said that the guy who invented gambling was smart, but the guy who invented chips was a genius (or something similar to that effect). Betting is a lot easier for most people if you are putting in little pieces of round plastic as opposed to hundred dollar bills. It's similar to it being easier to overspend with a credit card as opposed to forking over cash. Online has an even further removal for the reality of it being money. This can be a positive aspect with regard to poker and making +EV decisions of course, but it can go the other way as well for some people.

6. Different skills are needed playing online. It's beyond the scope of this topic to innumerate them all here, but clearly ou have to give up things like physical "tells" skills (overrated anyway, imo), and have better statistical analysis ability when playing online. I think that most people will make a lot bigger deal of this than they should. Pattern recognition (in opponents betting), both live and online, is going to give you more information more often about the strength of someones hand than seeing them twist their oreo a certain way.

7. Failure to make the strategic adjustments necessary. Your opponents play differently online than they do live. Again, it's probably beyond the scope of this topic to get into all the specific ways this occurs, suffice to say that you need adjust your game to compensate for this.

And finally:
8. You're not a winning player period. Play is much faster online, and you are able to see so many more hands or play so many more tournaments in a short period of time, that it becomes clear a lot more quickly if you are a winning player of not. Your mistakes are magnified since you will be making them far more often. In other words, playing online gets you into the long run faster, where a more accurate assessment of your skill can be seen. It takes a lot of different skill sets to win at poker, including patter recognition, logical/analytic mind, willingness to continue to study/learn/improve, discipline, etc., etc., etc., and a lot of people just are not going to have the ability or time to be winning players.
 
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First of all, me too! Also, there are many many different things about online versus live play. Online, you really have to be a volume player to make money that's worth making, otherwise, just play for fun. The main difference though is that I think it's easier to tilt online when donks destroy you with mediocre hands because it's easier to get click happy making bad moves than face the live embarrassment of making bad moves. Even more important is that in live games, people play more predictably. It's more rare to find people play absolute trash live and get lucky in my opinion than in online poker. People tend to piss money on the dumbest hands online, and not care, but get lucky and piss off the good players. Also, you have a much better edge live as you can read people while in online poker, you can't. A lot of people are use software to help them make better decisions, not to mention the occasional collusion between players. I think you'll find people online playing a much wider range of hands preflop and it's hard to guess what they have, but live, I think it's easier playing a post flop game, as people will call pot odds that are way beyond what they should be calling just to chase that gut shot straight, and I think this is where much money is made playing live if you wait for the right fish to come play in your game. I definitely think it's easier and less volatile to find fish that will play you in live games, but in online poker, you're facing hard to read opponents, those that cheat (which in reality is not a big problem, but it does lower your odds slightly), people who play hundreds of hands a day, and know the field pretty well, donks that might trigger a bad temper, and also the fact that games go by much faster online, and losing three games in an hour might cause you to go tilt, while in live games, it would take hours, but that spread might give you enough time to cool off. Also, at least in America, there are barriers to keep a good majority of fish from playing online poker for money, e.g. depositing/withdrawing barriers. The same people who only know how to deposit with a credit card but can't figure out any other options to deposit are the same people who want to be playing with. It's definitely much easier to figure out how to drive to a casino and get drunk, and drop a few hundred dollars for some of these people, lol. If you really want to make money online, you really need to practice good bankroll management, and learn to play at least 4 tables at a time. If you simply want to be a winning player, but don't like to multitable, you don't have to, just good bankroll management is good enough. If you like high stakes relative to your bankroll, then unless you have a recreational mindset, and you just want a quick gambling fix convenience of playing at home, don't expect to be a winning player, at least in the short run, because volatility gets most people, and it gets them hard!
 
TPC

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^^^ Please break your posts up so it's not one huge wall of text.

AG hit it on the head.

end thread:)
 
tgarner

tgarner

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Thanks guy's,
Before starting this thread I had just been getting run over again and again, no matter if I was playing cash or a sng.
You did give me a few things to think about and consider and hopefully things will improve.
I'm not looking to make a living at online poker by any means, I don't have the time or the money to invest in it to be that good.
But I would like to be good enough at it where my br gradually increases instead of decresing.
And after I started this thread, I did get back on and play(even though I said I wasn't going to) and did win back the money I had lost earlier in the day, plus some. So my mood did improve, but I still have work to do, I know that.

Thanks again all and see you on the felt.
 
mattzan

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Maybe you need to change your style. Play more agressive. (Not in freerolls please) or more tight.
Online poker is hard. you don't see the guy that you are against, can't see his reactions... play more online maybe you get better. I love playing poker online... live even more.
I do ok in both ways.
 
cardplayer52

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brian makes a great point here about tilt. online it can easily be multiplied over many tables. or if your on tilt its so easy to just click into another tournament. where as live you may have to wait another day or week till you can play again.
 
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Ptad

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We all do. You can't get reads on players so your basically going off of tendencies of players and luck. Bad beats happen often so don't worry.
 
5TR8 FLUSH

5TR8 FLUSH

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not ur fault its rigged:)

LOL, maybe/maybe not :eek: . What you got to realize, specially on FTP is that there are very terrible poker players online. For example if you play micro stakes most the player don't care about losing $5 or less, so they will play very loose aggressive. I don't know if you play tourney's(SNG's/MTT's) or cash games, but people seem to play different on both. They play very tight on cash games and try to win big pots, and play terribly on tourney's and get knocked out in the first 5 minutes. I guess you just have to get use to the online gameplay, my suggestion is always stay tight and pick the right spots to bluff. Best of luck on both live and online. :D
 
begley01

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In the same boat here, I'm very profitable in live games and have trouble online. I agree with several of the reasons why this happens. However I can rationalize the money lost online because it has made much such a better player.
 
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Daleyboy1234

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I like to compare live poker with online poker to Rugby union and rugby league(u.s may not get this) they are the same game in theory but with fundimental differences. Hell even Dan Negraneu said he's just getting used to playing online. it takes time.
 
Elliegurl

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I am killing myself trying to figure this out.
I play my local live games and just kill them, easy reads and the whole ball of wax. When I go play a live game around here, it's like pay me.
But when I play online, I SUCK, to put it lightly.
Don't get me wrong, I lose once in a while live, but it's rare.
What is so much different?
I feel like the flop never goes my way and when I get check raised and call, they still have the better hand with starting trash.
What do I do, my online stats suck, but I love playing?
Do I just play the private games for fun and save my br, or will it change, I'm going nuts here and don't know what to do. lol

Don't feel bad.....no one sucks more that I do..............at online poker:p
 
Leo 50

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Online poker is a completely different animal than live poker.

As AG pointed out there are many reasons why you are not a 'winning' player online.
You need to seriously look at your past hands (make sure you keep a hand history of your games) and honestly evaluate when and where you made your mistakes. Don't forget we ALL make mistakes in poker.

Keep notes on the players you meet online, I know people who check each person who sits at a table with them, gradually adding notes, strong, weak, aggressive, loose, folds to a re-raise, overplays an Ace etc. etc.
These can become invaluable to you when you need to make a tough decision.

The biggest mistakes I see online players make are NOT playing their position correctly, playing too many hands, overplaying that weak Ace and fishing for that flush or gutshot when they know they are already behind.

So wait patiently for that right hands and make your move

Hope some of this helps

:cool:
 
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Daleyboy1234

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Yeah if im playing a cash table and i know im going to be playing these players for a while i'm straight onto shark scope and poker edge to see who im up against.
 
Insanity

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Everyone feels that way at some point. Live you have so many more things to judge with and it is a coin flip online esp full tilt lately. Lot of donks. I have been on a losing streak from hell so studying hands or changing play will not work when that happens. Maybe u have the same problem at the moment. Good Luck!
 
micalupagoo

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well since there are many good answers to this post already, i dont know how much more to add,
one big thing i dont think was mentioned, is just pure random dumb luck- sometimes you get the cards, other times hours drag by with nothing but crap (same as live) so sometimes ya just gotta know when to stop playing for awhile.
and with the number of extra hands you usually end up playing (onlines usually way quicker), you get antsy to play a hand more often, which is why i like multi tables, dont get tempted on a halfass hand (as easy:)

there is also alot of online players who earned their bankroll through freerolls and private games, and I dont think its looked at as real cash out of ones wallet (Ive been guilty of tilting and losing a lot and not caring cuz it was all free)- which is why bankroll management is another crutial thing, how much of your roll do you sit with? i think they say a tenth max, or maybe even less, especially cuz you are still getting a feel for the new styles of players
online still can be easy if you follow the basics- with patience
gl2u
 
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Yeah I think I'm going to only play micro cash games from now on. I can never win consistently at SNG's. The way players play them are usualy horrible. Once they put in some chips they feel obligated to call you no matter what.

You get your donks in cash games too but it's not quite so bad.


LOL, maybe/maybe not :eek: . What you got to realize, specially on FTP is that there are very terrible poker players online. For example if you play micro stakes most the player don't care about losing $5 or less, so they will play very loose aggressive. I don't know if you play tourney's(SNG's/MTT's) or cash games, but people seem to play different on both. They play very tight on cash games and try to win big pots, and play terribly on tourney's and get knocked out in the first 5 minutes. I guess you just have to get use to the online gameplay, my suggestion is always stay tight and pick the right spots to bluff. Best of luck on both live and online. :D
 
Mikey Angs

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I may have missed it, but I haven't seen a post where variance was mentioned. Variance is so much more significant in online poker compared to a live game... I have been crushed by variance so many times online. What stakes are you playing??? Micro stake tables are filled with idiots, donks, fish, maniacs and anything else you can think of. There is no way any one can dominate these tables due to the amount of variance you will encounter... it's unreal. Bankroll management is also extremely important. If you find yourself going broke look into bankroll management. Some simple rules I use are... 1. Have at least 50 BB's in relation to the stakes you are playing. AND... 2. If the money you have in front of you is equal to 10% - 15% of your bankroll... leave the table.

Online poker is a whole different world and it will take some adjusting especially if you are new to it.
 
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Ernster86

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Thats true but it seems most people still lose all their cash:(

I mean how much skill is really involved, how good do you have to be to break even let alone make a consistent profit!.

God it's frustrating.

the more u play the better you get
 
tgarner

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The stakes I have been playing is $10NL-$25NL, my % of wins or money won is much better at 25NL, but my br doesn't support that yet(but I still play it probably 1 in every 6 or 7 times I play). In tournaments, anywhere from 1.25-3.30 with the ocassional 5.50 CC game.

I know I'm not suppose to do this, but when my br gets down to a certain ammount when playing 10NL, instead of moving down I move up to 25NL and knock on wood, most of the time increase my br back up a ways. I know that's bass akwards, but that has saved me several times from running completly out of money.

One thing I've noticed I do when playing 25NL over 10NL is when I am having a bad session, I quit before I lose to much. When I am playing 10NL I have realized that even when I am have a bad or not so good session, I keep playing. So maybe I'm not respecting the money as much at 10NL and that is one of the things that is causing me to go down at that limit.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the play seems extremely different from 10NL to 25NL. I know I get torked or tilted much more often at 10NL and then that affects my play for the rest of that session.

I can also contribute some of my loses to BEER, lol. As a matter of fact just about a week ago I got pretty smashed and I guess I decided to play poker. Don't remember it at all, but I got up the next morning and checked my br and thought to myself, "you dumbass". I had lost about 60 bucks of my br and don't even remember doing it. Guess I better stick to the 12 packs instead of the 24s, lol.
 
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