Can I really make a living at 1/2 Live?

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Hellmuth iz the Greatest

Hellmuth iz the Greatest

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Hey all, now that my rant about Phil Hellmuth is complete i want to get serious....

I am 27 years old and have a 40k a year job i hate. I don't believe in working for a boss ( Being a slave ) but obviously i have no choice.

Here is my goal and circumstances:

I want to work 2 more years and save, save, save until i approach 30. When that time comes i want to quit my job and try to make a living at low stakes live poker. ( Tournaments sprinkler in as well ) I play right now 20-25 hours a week cause thats all i can fit in w/ my 50 a week work week w/ travel. The most important thing to me is too do what i love and be free. I would rather do what i love and make it comfortably than work till 65 and then be rich.

My expenses are low... Just a split rent payment of 1k a month w/ tv, utilities, ect... W/ car insurance say a total of $700 a month expenses i would need to make.

Is quitting my miserable job worth the risk to try playing 1/2 ( maybe 2/5 ) live for a living?

I know i am a good low limit cash game player, i am patient and not reckless. I usually always end up up at the end of the month with my sessions of about 20 hours a week.

Problems... What about health insurance? Never looked into how much this would cost w/out a job....

What about fun money? Taking my fiance out to dinner? I fear i will then become super cheap not wanting to spend any of my money ( bankroll ) on anything fearing i will wipe through it and have to work again...

Bottom line is i have a long term goal to just never work again... Its what i hate most... Is this goal worth the risk? I mean if worst comes to worst i can always get another job right??? Well, maybe w/ this economy......

Opinions please...
 
P

puppy feet

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Is poker your real passion? It would seem way to stressful for me, but I've worked for myself most of my life. If you hate your job, I would suggest learning more about other passions while you play poker. You do have other passions right?
 
luckytvguy

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That question is similar to my question posted several days before.About 2k dollar a month.That is well enough to our asia countries.But may be not enough to people in western countries.
 
1ofTheFellas

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First you have to decide if it really is your passion, what you can see yourself doing every day for the rest of your life.

Secondly, everyone has a different idea of what they consider a good living. If you are simply trying to get by, make your 700 a month, and a little spending money, sure you can make a living playing 1-2 live. Will you necessarily have health insurance, putting money in the bank for future/retirement, have any luxuries, that remains to be seen. Sure if you find soft games and put in alot of volume, but with the inability to multitable online, it does make it somewhat harder to earn a GOOD living.
 
MiamiMadePunk

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Hey all, now that my rant about Phil Hellmuth is complete i want to get serious....

I am 27 years old and have a 40k a year job i hate. I don't believe in working for a boss ( Being a slave ) but obviously i have no choice.

Here is my goal and circumstances:

I want to work 2 more years and save, save, save until i approach 30. When that time comes i want to quit my job and try to make a living at low stakes live poker. ( Tournaments sprinkler in as well ) I play right now 20-25 hours a week cause thats all i can fit in w/ my 50 a week work week w/ travel. The most important thing to me is too do what i love and be free. I would rather do what i love and make it comfortably than work till 65 and then be rich.

My expenses are low... Just a split rent payment of 1k a month w/ tv, utilities, ect... W/ car insurance say a total of $700 a month expenses i would need to make.

Is quitting my miserable job worth the risk to try playing 1/2 ( maybe 2/5 ) live for a living?

I know i am a good low limit cash game player, i am patient and not reckless. I usually always end up up at the end of the month with my sessions of about 20 hours a week.

Problems... What about health insurance? Never looked into how much this would cost w/out a job....

What about fun money? Taking my fiance out to dinner? I fear i will then become super cheap not wanting to spend any of my money ( Bankroll ) on anything fearing i will wipe through it and have to work again...

Bottom line is i have a long term goal to just never work again... Its what i hate most... Is this goal worth the risk? I mean if worst comes to worst i can always get another job right??? Well, maybe w/ this economy......

Opinions please...

Nope, IMO, you need to be playing at least 5/10 live in order to make a living.
 
_FISHFEET81_

_FISHFEET81_

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of course you can, I did for 2 years until I got a job on the railway with great pay and benefits. You just need to be very dedicated at it and you cant just give up if you have a bad day or bad week. I remember one time I walked in to the nino bought in the lowest amount which was 60 bucks cashed out 800, the very next day bought in 100 and cashed out 1200 after 8 hours. How many people can say they make 1100 bucks in a 8 hour shift, probably not too many. But yes I struggled to had my fair of bad beats and what not, but that is just the beauty of the game, yes you hate getting bad beats but when you personally get lucky and hit your flush on the river for a 500 dollar pot it feels great.
 
Beanfacekilla

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It would be tough to make a good living on $1/$2. You could get by (if you are good).

The swings can be devastating.

Most important is are you a winning player? Have you played enough poker to be able to answer this question truthfully?

It is easy to profit in live $1/$2, but only if you are smart, and play with control, patience, and solid BRM. I believe 90% (estimate) of poker players can not do this.

You will need at least 50 buy-ins for your stakes, at least 6 months of emergency and living expenses, self control, and excellent money management habits.

If it really is your passion, and you will be happy, and you can PROFIT consistently, then go for it.
 
T

TheVeryBlessed

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Hey all, now that my rant about Phil Hellmuth is complete i want to get serious....

I am 27 years old and have a 40k a year job i hate. I don't believe in working for a boss ( Being a slave ) but obviously i have no choice.

Here is my goal and circumstances:

I want to work 2 more years and save, save, save until i approach 30. When that time comes i want to quit my job and try to make a living at low stakes live poker. ( Tournaments sprinkler in as well ) I play right now 20-25 hours a week cause thats all i can fit in w/ my 50 a week work week w/ travel. The most important thing to me is too do what i love and be free. I would rather do what i love and make it comfortably than work till 65 and then be rich.

My expenses are low... Just a split rent payment of 1k a month w/ tv, utilities, ect... W/ car insurance say a total of $700 a month expenses i would need to make.

Is quitting my miserable job worth the risk to try playing 1/2 ( maybe 2/5 ) live for a living?

I know i am a good low limit cash game player, i am patient and not reckless. I usually always end up up at the end of the month with my sessions of about 20 hours a week.

Problems... What about health insurance? Never looked into how much this would cost w/out a job....

What about fun money? Taking my fiance out to dinner? I fear i will then become super cheap not wanting to spend any of my money ( Bankroll ) on anything fearing i will wipe through it and have to work again...

Bottom line is i have a long term goal to just never work again... Its what i hate most... Is this goal worth the risk? I mean if worst comes to worst i can always get another job right??? Well, maybe w/ this economy......

Opinions please...

First off I would like to invite you to join my Poker Brain Trust I'm forming... Second if you want to really play poker for a living do it don't worry if other people think you can or not. I have a very high goal set which I believe and will achieve. The only way to achieve big dreams is to dream big dreams. So make a plan, be persistent, stay determined, and remember failure is not an option... Send me a pm if your interested in joining my Poker Brain Trust and want more information... Adam L Shockley
 
dudemanstan

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Hating your job as you say you do will make you a better poker player imo. Keep at it. In less then 2 you might just have that edge.
 
B

baudib1

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Probably not.

You probably need to be playing big and juicy 2/5 games like 70 hours a week to match your $40K a year job, and that's being generous. That's a rate of about $11-$12 an hour, and figuring 25 hands per hour, that's about about 8-9 BB/100, which is positively crushing. This isn't counting stuff like various poker-related expenses.

Really, you need to be crushing $5-$10 to have the freedom and money you're dreaming of.

Recommendations:
1. You need to play online, I'd recommend getting in a couple million hands at microstakes and above before setting out to play for a living.
2. If you do go for it, start out with a minimum of 6 months living expenses (rent, food, etc) and a separate poker bankroll of 50 buyins for the level you are playing (i.e. $25,000 at $2-$5).
If this sounds like a tough task, it is. Build up your bankroll, and then take shots at bigger games perhaps through a staking arrangement. If you have to play with the stress of paying the rent and eating, then you aren't going to play optimally. You just aren't.
3. I'd get a part-time job that you don't HATE that will pay some of your expenses and also some insurance. Something like Starbucks.

good luck
 
MiamiMadePunk

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Probably not.

You probably need to be playing big and juicy 2/5 games like 70 hours a week to match your $40K a year job, and that's being generous. That's a rate of about $11-$12 an hour, and figuring 25 hands per hour, that's about about 8-9 BB/100, which is positively crushing. This isn't counting stuff like various poker-related expenses.

Really, you need to be crushing $5-$10 to have the freedom and money you're dreaming of.

Recommendations:
1. You need to play online, I'd recommend getting in a couple million hands at microstakes and above before setting out to play for a living.
2. If you do go for it, start out with a minimum of 6 months living expenses (rent, food, etc) and a separate poker bankroll of 50 buyins for the level you are playing (i.e. $25,000 at $2-$5).
If this sounds like a tough task, it is. Build up your bankroll, and then take shots at bigger games perhaps through a staking arrangement. If you have to play with the stress of paying the rent and eating, then you aren't going to play optimally. You just aren't.
3. I'd get a part-time job that you don't HATE that will pay some of your expenses and also some insurance. Something like Starbucks.

good luck

Dude, he wants to play primary live, not online.
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Dude, also for a sample size big enough to show if you're a true winning player or not. Also dude, to stay ahead of the game.
See baudib this is why ya don't leave the cash game forum, dude
 
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C

cotta777

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Hey all, now that my rant about Phil Hellmuth is complete i want to get serious....

I am 27 years old and have a 40k a year job i hate. I don't believe in working for a boss ( Being a slave ) but obviously i have no choice.

Here is my goal and circumstances:

I want to work 2 more years and save, save, save until i approach 30. When that time comes i want to quit my job and try to make a living at low stakes live poker. ( Tournaments sprinkler in as well ) I play right now 20-25 hours a week cause thats all i can fit in w/ my 50 a week work week w/ travel. The most important thing to me is too do what i love and be free. I would rather do what i love and make it comfortably than work till 65 and then be rich.

My expenses are low... Just a split rent payment of 1k a month w/ tv, utilities, ect... W/ car insurance say a total of $700 a month expenses i would need to make.

Is quitting my miserable job worth the risk to try playing 1/2 ( maybe 2/5 ) live for a living?

I know i am a good low limit cash game player, i am patient and not reckless. I usually always end up up at the end of the month with my sessions of about 20 hours a week.

Problems... What about health insurance? Never looked into how much this would cost w/out a job....

What about fun money? Taking my fiance out to dinner? I fear i will then become super cheap not wanting to spend any of my money ( Bankroll ) on anything fearing i will wipe through it and have to work again...

Bottom line is i have a long term goal to just never work again... Its what i hate most... Is this goal worth the risk? I mean if worst comes to worst i can always get another job right??? Well, maybe w/ this economy......

Opinions please...


Hellmuth, I work in business sales man and I treat looking for a job like sales, If you ring people and sell yourself for an interview you will always get a job an opportunity.

so you will always have work, if destiny is calling you to poker then only you can decide if the risk is good for you or if temptation is taking your life away into a risky world your not made for,
some of us can only handle the high's and the lows or the big risks in poker are the ones most need to take to get rich in the game

or just keep playing satellites to big tournys adventually you might take a life changing cash
 
Arjonius

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Do the math and see if you think you can win enough to make your living from poker. First, figure out how much you need to average in winnings per month. Then figure out how many hours per month you're willing and able to average. Divide the former by the latter to get your required win rate per hour. Then judge how reasonable it is that you can average this much over the long term.
 
Propane Goat

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I can't add much more than to say that not having a fat reserve account for living expenses will probably give you more problems than anything else. I think it would be tough to try and make good decisions and not play scared if you're constantly worried about not being able to pay the rent if you have a losing week.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Probably not.

You probably need to be playing big and juicy 2/5 games like 70 hours a week to match your $40K a year job, and that's being generous. That's a rate of about $11-$12 an hour, and figuring 25 hands per hour, that's about about 8-9 BB/100, which is positively crushing. This isn't counting stuff like various poker-related expenses.

Really, you need to be crushing $5-$10 to have the freedom and money you're dreaming of.

Recommendations:
1. You need to play online, I'd recommend getting in a couple million hands at microstakes and above before setting out to play for a living.
2. If you do go for it, start out with a minimum of 6 months living expenses (rent, food, etc) and a separate poker bankroll of 50 buyins for the level you are playing (i.e. $25,000 at $2-$5).
If this sounds like a tough task, it is. Build up your bankroll, and then take shots at bigger games perhaps through a staking arrangement. If you have to play with the stress of paying the rent and eating, then you aren't going to play optimally. You just aren't.
3. I'd get a part-time job that you don't HATE that will pay some of your expenses and also some insurance. Something like Starbucks.

good luck


I think the figure of $11~$12/hour is pretty low for $2/$5 live. I average more than that at $1/$2.

I am not saying you are wrong. I respect your opinion, and I think it's good to be realistic. However, live is just a different beast than online. Players are really, really bad.

I think a good player can easily make 10bb/hour average at a live table.
 
WeenieSVK

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How many people have same dream these days.. To quit their boring job and start their poker career. Me too :D But I didnt find that big balls to quit job and start plying poker as "professional" yet. If you will decide to stick with your plan I wish you the best luck. but be carefull. I think especially at beginning it will be huge pressure to be profitable and profitable enough...
 
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It's a huge step, but I do agree with the poster talking about building a roll online first. You're taking a huge step and you want that padding. Right now, I'm building the roll and playing some live MTTs. A first place bink would be ftw.
 
jhonihgrass

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I honestly think that poker can not be your first choice of money, the reason I say this is because I've tried and it was not any fun, I make more money at poker with a financial security (JOB), is easier you will not have the pressure to win!
 
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I played for a living for about 5 years and it is a rough life. I just got bored to be honest with it all. Tired of sitting in one spot for hours on end, But i met many people and it opened doors to other business opportunities.

I would suggest that you play for 6 months while working and keep a log/journal of your playing time and wins/losses and do the math and see were you stand and be 100% honest with yourself. And keep track of the times and days with the most fish and focus on playing in those times.

Not sure where you live and how many options casino's you have. But, some places are much better than others. South Florida has tons of fish and LV, LA. But, Fishes also mean more bad beats. Always remember you want people to play like idiots so don't cry about bad beats....
 
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If you are passionate about poker, and believe in yourself, as well as see rewards for your efforts then go for it!!!
 
Beanfacekilla

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If you are passionate about poker, and believe in yourself, as well as see rewards for your efforts then go for it!!!


I think OP must be good at poker as well. Believing in one's self is not enough if they are terrible (not saying OP is).
 
NvrBlufn

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You must be fairly well-disciplined if you can commit yourself to playing $1/2 and not jumping up the stakes trying to make more money.

Sincere Kudos to you for seeing the potential to crush one single level without accepting the risks inherent with the higher stakes.

My question: What is the main reason for not saying "Hey I wonder if I could make a FT living off grinding $10/20?

For me the problem with poker being your sole income is that periodically you might hit some run bad, and that turbulence may be something you cannot live with (or on).
Always helps to have a back up plan, whether it be in the form of a PT job elsewhere or--as another poster suggested--6 months to a year of stored cash in savings.

As far as bank roll management and not becoming 'cheap'

You should never be risking your savings at the poker table and you should NEVER be taking your wife or girlfriend out on a date using your poker money. (Gawd I wish I could follow my own advice here@!)

Your poker bankroll should exist in its own separate space. That is how you make your living. Let's say you have a $2000 roll that lives in a safe.

Every time you go to the casino you go to this special place where your BR sleeps and you carry it to the poker rooms. Do not use this money for anything but poker!

When you come home with your winnings (I'll just assume you finish every session with a positive net profit, right? :p)... you have to put the original 2k back together and you can bank your net.

Keep records. Make weekly deposits to your bank account. If you are going to treat this seriously you must BYOB (be your own boss). Treat it like a solid business.
 
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