I need some quick Stud tips.

Help, I've been invited to play with my father and his college buddies this weekend in their monthly game. Stricly Low limit, vanilla 7 Card Stud. No hi lo, no Razz. They consider Hold 'em a fancy game. I doubt they've ever heard of Omaha. Of course I know the rules, but I just don't have the same sense of the game that I have with Hold'em. I get the feeling that none of these guys are students of the game, but I need some nuggets of wisdom to keep me from embarrassing myself. What to avoid, what to look for, tells, whatever.

Thanks.
FD

in my expirence, wait for good hands, try not to chase too much, and if you can't beat what someone's got showing, get out, if that's not too obvious

-n

Not at all. Keep it simple. Thanks Nate.

Hey Dogs,

Well you have a few days, have a look at this page. Good luck. Hope you knock'em down!!

http://www.studstrategy.com/7cardstudstrategyhi.htm

Nice Sammy. I've printed that one. Back pocket.

General strategy is along the lines of only entering the pot with pairs, trips, 3-card straights or 3-card flushes on 3rd street. 4th street you'll generally want to see (unless only the bring-in was called by people and your hand now looks counterfeited), and then make your main decision on 5th street. If you haven't improved (to at least a 4-card straight or flush draw for the drawing hands), then generally don't keep fighting for the pot, and as nate said, without a draw, if you can't beat the face-up cards your opponents have, then get out, fast (this includes folding on 4th street when someone spikes a pair and you've got a lower pair only for your hand and no draw).

Remember that staying in can get expensive with an extra round of betting compared to Holdem.

Make a note of what the bring-in and antes are like compared to the bet amounts, as this will affect your starting hand strategy - if the antes are relatively large (e.g. $5 ante and bring-in and a $10 small bet would be a pretty huge ante), then you'll have to get involved with more pots - the smaller the ante the tighter you can play, generally.

Make a note of the cards on the board, as you'll need to know those to work out your outs correctly - you'll need to remember them if someone folds, so practicing remembering a list of cards can be handy to help ensure you can do this.

For more detail, though, Sammys link looks pretty good.

That's my big problem. Terrible short term memory. That's probably why hold'em and Omaha are my games. Memorize your outs and odds and your set to go. Unseen cards remain the same for every hand. Stud. Different story. Now I need to memorize folded hands too? Forget it. Basic strategy is going to have to do.

Four Dogs said:

That's my big problem. Terrible short term memory. That's probably why hold'em and Omaha are my games. Memorize your outs and odds and your set to go. Unseen cards remain the same for every hand. Stud. Different story. Now I need to memorize folded hands too? Forget it. Basic strategy is going to have to do.

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Take a pen and paper, and write down the cards. Simple huh?

nateofdeath said:

in my expirence, wait for good hands, try not to chase too much, and if you can't beat what someone's got showing, get out, if that's not too obvious

-n

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Probably the best advice you could get.

I remember having to learn stud very quickly for a similar situation.

From what I know, it's fair they don't take to hold'em, it's only really shot to fame because of the WSOP and televised events, and that the two down cards can be displayed on screen...

I play a regular live game with some older people who "cut their teeth" on Omaha, (these guys refer to hold'em as "two card", but also have "four card", "five card" and "six card" versions of Omaha").

I felt really out my league as I didn’t know all the odds like the back of my hand. In the end I folded so many hands just out of sheer fear that I didn't know what I was doing, and as it was dealer's choice only played when it was a game I was more comfortable with. Anyways - I did improve my stud game - thanks to all their helpful advice and some real experience.


The advice already dished out here is probably all you may need but just in case, here are a few tips that have helped me improve my game against my older adversaries in my local ring game (based on some poker tactics and some stereotypes about what older poker players may think about our generation)


Don't chase - you'll only get burned in the long run.
Play with strong starting hands that are either already paired or have lots of outs.
Don't fret if you can't remember all the folded cards - if you know what you are looking for they will jump out at you.
Tells. Pay attention to people staring at one of the up cards - it's obvious I know, but I see it all the time.
Stamp a good rep - you are a young player, they will think you will try too many bluffs etc. Use this to your advantage by playing tight and folding good up cards when they mean nothing when associated with your down cards.
Rinse the pride driven calling stations that are out to teach you, the young gun, a lesson. When you have a strong hand keep the raises coming - thus earning you some respect, and then the ability to bluff later in the game when you have a good up cards and nothing really face down.


I hope this helps a little - don't be shocked if their stud game rules vary a little from what you have read in books, thats just poker for you.

I would appreciate it if you could let me know if this helps, or even better, if you end up having any advice for me!

Best of luck,

Scouse.

Scouse said:

I would appreciate it if you could let me know if this helps, or even better, if you end up having any advice for me!

Best of luck,

Scouse.

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Thanks Scouse, just the kind of stuff I was looking for. I doubt there's very much advice in the way of Stud I can give you that would be of any value. Sounds to me like you've already got a good grip on it.

I have a couple of questions though.

Scouse said:

Don't chase - you'll only get burned in the long run. .

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I thought the idea in Limit Stud was to play your drawing hands strong because it is more difficult for your opponent(s) to keep the pot odds down.

Scouse said:

Tells. Pay attention to people staring at one of the up cards - it's obvious I know, but I see it all the time..

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Not obvious to me. What does that mean. Staring at their own up card or someone elses?

Scouse said:

Don't fret if you can't remember all the folded cards - if you know what you are looking for they will jump out at you..

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Good advice.

robwhufc said:

Take a pen and paper, and write down the cards. Simple huh?

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Seeing as how he's playing with his father and his father's college friends, I think this would go over like a lead balloon. I just can't see these old-timers going for that. We used to have a friendly dealer's choice game with my old neighbor's every once in a while.

Sometimes my friend's dad would come to play. He would get so pissed and sit out when we started playing goofy stuff like "one-eyed Jacks are wild", etc. etc (I didn't take poker as seriously as I do now ). And he had absolutely no patience if you kept messing up (i.e. betting out of turn, talking about a hand while in play and the like).

So FD, that's about the only advice I can give you on this subject: don't take a pen and paper to the game and tick the old guys off!

Got it Q. No notes. Mute Chat.
I'm going All-in 1st hand. Just to show them who's boss.

"I thought the idea in Limit Stud was to play your drawing hands strong because it is more difficult for your opponent(s) to keep the pot odds down."

- This may well be the best stud tactic - but I don't have the bank roll to do it. I suppose it depends on the limits you play - which are normally very low, but when I play the old timers, (which BTW is dealer's choice - but not friendly in the sense there is more of them than me - and I am the only one asking for "2 card", i.e. Texas Hold'em!), we play for 50p/£1 (Which in PL can go stupidly crazy with pots often well over a hundred pounds!)

Anyway, back to the point... I play very strong hands, or only draw when I have a good number of outs, betting fairly generously to build up what Doyle called "the poker economy". This concept, if, (and only if), I am correct, works on the basis that the more money there is swimming around, the more likely you are to maximise your profits.

...I just realised you are playing Limit, (which is how i think most people play it). You can maybe understand why I play so tight considering I play PL with the old guys and gals!

Anyway to the tells, I notice certain people paying attention to someone's up cards, and they have only started paying attention now... so its probably the last upturn card that is catching their attention. If you know this and look at THAT person's up cards, you can have a good guess what they are going for - and know if that is beating what you got or what you are drawing for, or even better you are killing his hand by holding what he needs face down in the cards you are not using in your own hand.

(Most importantly, you don't want to be drawing for a 7 to make your boat, when there are two sevens that have already been face up on the table)

Bear in mind, if there are 8 players, you only get one community card I think. This has never happened to me before.

And finally, but almost definitely, Q has made a great point again.
I am really up on poker etiquette, I am constantly saying thank you and being as nice as possible - so much so, some people think it's an act. I am always first to tip a dealer, trying to stick to poker etiquette as much as possible. When you play with someone who practises these rules slightly differently, don't argue, and concentrate on making sure you stick to these new rules for the game.

For example, at my old peoples’ local game, the button is the small blind and dealer,
they are kinda cool with coffee housing,
they don’t like but will allow string bets, (grrr),

and yet....

the thing that probably gets their goat the most?
... when I say raise when I mean bet, and bet when I mean raise.

LMAO!!

Also whack in some respectful commentary, like how 5 card stud was the original and purest form of poker, but how 7 card stud is more palatable for a fun game.... (I could be wrong so don't go quoting that without making sure first!!)

Best of luck ol'Chap!