Howard Lederer on Full Tilt's RNG
From: "andreas kinell"
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:50:53 +0200
Local: Mon, Apr 18 2005 6:50 am
Subject: Re: RNG's at Full Tilt.
> Interesting transcript from Howard Lederer in a razz S&G with him tonight
> regarding the RNG and card shuffling at Full Tilt. Figured some people
> would be interested in reading...
> Caitlin215 (Observer): i understand that FTP uses
> action cards placed at random intervals to speed
> up play is that true in ring games as well as
> tourneys or are they just used in tourneys
> Howard Lederer: our deal si totally random
> Howard Lederer: action flops would be hard to
> Caitlin215 (Observer): well i had the opportunity to
> meet chris recently and i was talking to him about
> Full Tilt Poker
someone over heard and asked him if Full Tilt Poker used
> action cards and he said yes placed at totally
> random intervals but i wasnt sure if he was just
> talking about toruuneys
> esfd283: how would that be possible
> Howard Lederer: you misheard
> Shangri La (Observer): what are action cards?
> Howard Lederer: he wwas either joking
> Caitlin215 (Observer): i guess i did then
> Howard Lederer: or you misheard
> Howard Lederer: the notion of action cards is
> funny to us
> Shangri La (Observer): to Full Tilt Poker?
> Howard Lederer: because we know how hard it
> would be to pull off
> Dakon (Observer): strange thing to joke about
> Howard Lederer: and the risk of discovery would
> be huge
> Howard Lederer: our deal is rnadom on three levels
> Howard Lederer: first we used an audited rng
> Howard Lederer: but we also use a deck queue
> Howard Lederer: basically each deck on the site is
> put in a queue after it is used
> Howard Lederer: then when we need a deck we
> pick one at random
> Howard Lederer: then we run it through the rng
> Howard Lederer: then after each round has been
> Howard Lederer: the remaining cards are shuffled
> during the action
> Caitlin215 (Observer): wait the deck that s in play
> is shuffled during the action
> Howard Lederer: there is no way to know what is
> coming because trhe cardes are not set
> Howard Lederer: right cait
> Caitlin215 (Observer): now is that fair to shuffle the
> deck once its in play?
> Howard Lederer: since the deck is not set, you
> can't cheat
> Caitlin215 (Observer): ok thta makes sense
> Howard Lederer: we areonly suffling the cards that
> Caitlin215 (Observer): but how would u be able to
> cheat unless u found a way to ping the deck off
> the server
> Howard Lederer: if some how you could crack the
> deck, it wouldn't help you at our site
> Howard Lederer: I am not suggesting that it would
> be easy
the good news:
a nice idea to shuffle the deck during play, it makes it way
harder to cheat.
the bad news:
your play may actually change the next card to come.
it doesn't really matter theoretically, but i feel uncomfortable
when i know that, if i had bet one second later, i probably
would not have been outdrawn and stuff like this.
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:06:58 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 18 2005 7:06 am
Subject: Re: RNG's at Full Tilt.
"andreas kinell" wrote in message
> the bad news:
> your play may actually change the next card to come.
> it doesn't really matter theoretically, but i feel uncomfortable
> when i know that, if i had bet one second later, i probably
> would not have been outdrawn and stuff like this.
Agreed, but it also means that next time you chuck 72o and the flop is 772
you dont feel quite so bad.