How Is Rake/Tip Handled In A Real Casino

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JEP712

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If you were to play poker at a Casino how is the rake/tip handled?

This questions applies to Ring Games, SnG, and Tournaments.

Like when you play at a ring game, do the just estimate the amount of rake and take it from the pot? Also the tipping, do you tip them every time or at the end. I'm going to a casino in the near future, so some experience is needed from you senior members.

Thanks in advance!
 
c9h13no3

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Usually they rake something like $1 for every $10 or $20 in the pot. Often its written on the table.

Tip $1 whenever you win a sizable pot. Anything over 10-12 big blinds is probably worth a tip. There's no reason to ever tip more than $1 unless your service was especially impressive. But usually whenever I play LO8 or Razz, I have to spend half the time telling the dealer who won the pot, and I'm reluctant to tip them the $1 per pot I win.
 
OzExorcist

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It varies depending on the casino.

Tournaments and SnGs are the easiest - you'll be charged a flat fee, same as you would be online, and you pay it at the same time as you pay your buy in for the tournament.

There are a few ways rake in cash games can be handled.

The easiest (though not necessarily the most common) is where the casino charges "time" - everybody pays a flat fee per unit of time they're in the game. It might be $5/hr, on the hour, for example.

Probably the most common method is raking the pot, just like an online ring game. The dealer will take the amount out of the pot while the hand is in progress. They certainly don't estimate, a big part of casino poker dealer training is tracking pots and calculating rake. There'll be a fixed percentage of rake that the casino takes and usually it'll be capped (so 10% of the pot up to a maximum of $15 or something).

Most casinos also have a "no flop no drop" policy where if a pot is taken down preflop no rake is paid.

There's another option too which is called the collection pot. TBH it's one I don't understand that well because I've never played in a casino that uses it but it's sort of like a time charge that's collected differently. Once every hour (or whatever the time period is) there's a designated "collection pot". The next time there's a pot over a set amount (ie: big enough to pay the collection) the winner of that pot pays the equivalent of time for all of the players at the table. So if there's eight players at the table and the designated collection / time amount is $5 then the player that wins the collection pot will forfeit $40 of it to the house and take the remainder. I don't think it's that common, but they do use it on Live At The Bike if you're interested in seeing it in action and someone who's actually played that method might be able to explain it better.

Some casinos combine multiple methods - my local casino charges time and rakes every pot in ring games, for example.

Tipping is something I know a lot less about because it's not allowed in our casinos. From what I've read though tipping at the end of a tournament changes. Some casinos have included tips in their fee structure, others don't, check with the tournament director or floor person if you're not sure. What c9 said works for cash games.
 
LarkMarlow

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On the riverboats where I play the standard practice is to toss the dealer a white chip ($1) for every pot you win. If I win a gargantuan pot I'll toss two.

Those dealers work really hard and, like waiters and waitresses, count on tips because their hourly base pay isn't all that great. Also, as in a restaurant, customers who don't tip are not highly thought of by the dealers or floor staff. Even other players chastise someone who doesn't tip. When first-timers sit down, someone will tell them that they should tip.

For tournaments, while the standard tip is 5% many players tip 10%. Same goes for Bad Beat Jackpots.

An interesting rule is that the Floor is not allowed to accept tips because they are on salary. In June Mike and I were asked to play in the yearly Invitational which often goes into the wee hours, but the hotel was booked. One of the floor managers bent over backwards to get us a room, and quite a room that was--a suite actually. Because I couldn't tip her, I wrote a glowing letter to HR which not only went into her file but was shared with other key higher-ups.
 
Kasanova King

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On the riverboats where I play the standard practice is to toss the dealer a white chip ($1) for every pot you win. If I win a gargantuan pot I'll toss two.

Those dealers work really hard and, like waiters and waitresses, count on tips because their hourly base pay isn't all that great. Also, as in a restaurant, customers who don't tip are not highly thought of by the dealers or floor staff. Even other players chastise someone who doesn't tip. When first-timers sit down, someone will tell them that they should tip.

For tournaments, while the standard tip is 5% many players tip 10%. Same goes for Bad Beat Jackpots.

An interesting rule is that the Floor is not allowed to accept tips because they are on salary. In June Mike and I were asked to play in the yearly Invitational which often goes into the wee hours, but the hotel was booked. One of the floor managers bent over backwards to get us a room, and quite a room that was--a suite actually. Because I couldn't tip her, I wrote a glowing letter to HR which not only went into her file but was shared with other key higher-ups.


This is as about as accurate as it gets.
 
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Thanks for the help guys. Before I sit down at a table, I'll be sure to find the floor manager to find out how they do it.
 
Rldetheflop

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Please don't compare dealers and wait staff persons.

waitress and such make about 1/3 minimum wage as their base salary. Casino dealers make 2-3 times minimum wage as base salary.


IMO tipping is quite damaging to your bb/hr especially considering the casino is raking the pot also.

will the dealer give me some back when i lose a big pot?


P.S. I also tip wait staff because if you dont the next time they spit in your food. What is the dealer gonna do flip the cards over slower?

Now if the dealer is really friendly and Ive done well I usually kick the dealer 5 or 10 dollars when I leave
 
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NBA2K10ROCKETS

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I dont know if i would tip the dealer for every pot i won. Maybe once in a while when i win a big pot.
 
jordanbillie

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Please don't compare dealers and wait staff persons.

waitress and such make about 1/3 minimum wage as their base salary. Casino dealers make 2-3 times minimum wage as base salary.


IMO tipping is quite damaging to your bb/hr especially considering the casino is raking the pot also.

will the dealer give me some back when i lose a big pot?


P.S. I also tip wait staff because if you dont the next time they spit in your food. What is the dealer gonna do flip the cards over slower?

Now if the dealer is really friendly and Ive done well I usually kick the dealer 5 or 10 dollars when I leave

Being a dealer I want to stress two points here.

#1) I make less than minimum wage so I depend on my tips.

#2) If you are a stiff, you will be remembered as being a stiff and dealers will be more strict with the rules towards you and even talk to each other about how they can muck your hand in a big pot.
 
Rldetheflop

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Being a dealer I want to stress two points here.

#1) I make less than minimum wage so I depend on my tips.

#2) If you are a stiff, you will be remembered as being a stiff and dealers will be more strict with the rules towards you and even talk to each other about how they can muck your hand in a big pot.


wow hate to hear that your employers dont pay you the way they should. The casinos in my area start out at 12.50 an hour.

I would hope someone wouldnt risk their job over not getting a tip. If It were ever discovered that a dealer cheated to cost me money. I would make sure he was fired and I would also bring legal action.

Besides Im far too smart to not protect my cards.
 
OzExorcist

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I would hope someone wouldnt risk their job over not getting a tip. If It were ever discovered that a dealer cheated to cost me money. I would make sure he was fired and I would also bring legal action.

Besides Im far too smart to not protect my cards.

Yeah... except it's not just times when you haven't protected your hand that the dealer can legitimately make the call on whether you win a big pot or not.

Plus you're assuming the floor person / pit boss is going to side with you over one of their staff when you go to them in a huff demanding a dealer be fired and threatening to sue people.

It's your call but if tipping is the norm in the casino where you're playing then probably best to just not be a stiff, IMO.
 
Rldetheflop

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Yeah... except it's not just times when you haven't protected your hand that the dealer can legitimately make the call on whether you win a big pot or not.

Plus you're assuming the floor person / pit boss is going to side with you over one of their staff when you go to them in a huff demanding a dealer be fired and threatening to sue people.

It's your call but if tipping is the norm in the casino where you're playing then probably best to just not be a stiff, IMO.


Examples please.

Keep in mind I have a touch of OCD so I dont do things like string bet, raise less than the minimum ( I never raise the minimum anyway lol), play out of turn. or throw in a single oversized chip without announcing raise or call to clarify. I just dont Im compulsive that way.

Also as we all know casinos have cameras everywhere so If the dealer decides I have made an error that would cost me the pot it damn well better show up on the video.
 
OzExorcist

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Examples please.

I'd have thought that was obvious - you might be OCD about protecting your hand, not string betting, etc but not all of your opponents will be and pretty much every casino works on the basis that sometimes fairness has to take precedence over the technical rules.

Dealers and floor people are the ones who decide when to apply fairness over the technical rules. If you're a stiff and your opponent (who does tip) makes a borderline mistake, the dealer has a choice: apply the technical rules to benefit the stiff, or make a call in the interests of "fairness" to benefit the tipper? Say their unprotected hand gets mucked by accident but the cards can be clearly identified - do they get recovered from the muck or not?

You've got no recourse against a "fairness" judgement and the cameras will only back the dealer - they'll show a borderline situation where the dealer decided to be fair rather than technical.
 
jordanbillie

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^^ This is an excellent example. ^^

It's not that the dealer would cheat to cost you money, it is that the dealer has the interest of making the tipping player win, so any borderline decicion will benefit the tipping player.

Dealer can also "accidentally" flip your cards over a couple times when you bet and nobody calls and you try to muck. I have seen that happen quite a bit, and it is funny. :)
 
ukaliks

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One of my local casinos rakes something like 5/10% of the pot.
I'll tip the dealer ocassionaly if I win a huge pot or if he's done an good job. I'd feel bit shady not tipping the dealer as he's doin a minamum wage job (in UK it is something like £5.50ph) and working unsociable hours.
Plus if were winning or loosing it feels generious/kind too. I've been America alot and they like to tip so I think I got it from u guys lol.

One of my mates told me this:
Want to get serverd faster in a bar? When paying for ur drinks, ask the bartender if he would like a drink/tip. He may not take it, but he will remember ur face and ur kind offer.
 
PattyR

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This is a very interesting an informative thread.

I have yet to play any live poker, but this summer me and a couple buddies were lookin to go to canada to play in a casino up there.

Great advice comin from Oz, Jordan, and C9. Gonna have to make sure i come back to this thread before i go to the Casino
 
jordanbillie

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Patty I see you are from OH and are thinking of going up to Canada to play. By any chance would you be looking into playing in Niagara Falls Canada?? If so let me know and I will meet you guys up there.
 
PattyR

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Patty I see you are from OH and are thinking of going up to Canada to play. By any chance would you be looking into playing in Niagara Falls Canada?? If so let me know and I will meet you guys up there.

im not exactly sure where were gonna go..but i will definately let you know when we decide man
 
jordanbillie

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im not exactly sure where were gonna go..but i will definately let you know when we decide man

Are you under 21? If not, you should come to the casino I work at in NY (Seneca Niagara Casino).

I would highly recommend playing at both Seneca Niagara and also the 2 casinos in Canada (Fallsview and Casino Niagara). Casino Niagara is the older casino and the poker room only runs 1/2 NL $60min $200max. Fallsview is the bigger, better casino and it runs 2/5 to 10/20. The 2/5 has a $100 min and $300 max.

You guys should make a trip and seriously let me know because I can show you guys around and show you the good party spots too. Just remember you need a passport to get into Canada.
 
LarkMarlow

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Many Ohioans head to Caesars in Windsor, Ontario when they turn 19 because that's the legal age there and not too far go. I think it's about 5 hours from Cincinnati. I've heard that the Windsor Caesars has a really decent poker room.
 
A

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Wow

Examples please.

Keep in mind I have a touch of OCD so I dont do things like string bet, raise less than the minimum ( I never raise the minimum anyway lol), play out of turn. or throw in a single oversized chip without announcing raise or call to clarify. I just dont Im compulsive that way.

Also as we all know casinos have cameras everywhere so If the dealer decides I have made an error that would cost me the pot it damn well better show up on the video.



Gee I hope this thread hasn't died out cuz this is EXACTLY the kind of misinforming attitude that spreads a suffocating ignorance thru the entire room.... I've been a poker dealer for 10yrs (from 3 casinos in 3 different states to traveling charity events and even underground games in the back of chinatown restaurants) and I can tell you first hand that I have NEVER been paid more than $5/hr by a casino! Not only is it considered a tipped profession (with a minimal tipped employee pay) but Indian casinos that are built on sovereign land are exempt from federal wage/workplace laws, which means minimum wage does not exist, health benefits are not offered, paid sick days are non-existent (no salary to base it off of) and enduring a 3hr hell drive to work in a snow storm doesn't even guarantee you a full days pay, as I have arrived in such circumstances only to be sent right back into the blizzard because not enough tables were open... which is really a bad beat cuz you end up loosing money on the gas/milage just to be sent home.

Now, the bright side is that (if you're like me) you can run a smooth game, make change in the middle of hands without the floor/pit babysitting, vocalize the action, and keep count of the pot while monitoring the 2 idiots in the 3 & 4 seats who are making side bets on whether the river is red or black... then you can get out a good 30 hands per down (aka half hour) and make about $50 an hour. But the problem lies where you end up pushing most of the pots to a guy like this who has this attitude. I gotta say, the whole waiting till the end to throw the dealer $5 or $10 for exceptional service is the worst possible energy you can bring to the table. In all honesty, it is true that the dealer doesn't really have control in making you win, but like I mentioned earlier, it IS a profession based on tips if nothing else.... so after the first pot or 2 that you stiff the dealer on, he/she could feel a little discouraged and start slowing it waaaay down thinking "f I was friendly and did my job correctly and still didnt get tipped from the guy who keeps taking pots, then I may as well not exert myself because I can't do worse than $0" Now the dealer stops paying attention and if other players see you not tipping, well monkey see monkey do and a person who would have normally tipped just didn't all because he's following the discourteous norm that you have set.

More resentment kicks in and now the dealer is just WAITING for the next pot you get into, not to "cheat" you (that idea only further proves your ignorance) but to make a "mistake" like burn and turn before you had your action so you can make a big scene and play like shit with all the excitement, or muck the deck and push the pot when your opponent bets "forgetting" that you were even still in the hand, turning 2 cards that are "stuck together" hahaa, making such a mess that the floor has to come over and spend so much time fixing it that the next dealer is already here to relieve. After all, it should be real easy for the dealer to seem "off" or "confused" to cameras and management, especially since you've been (as you mentioned) directing the dealers on how to their job chopping pots, etc all night.

Its a horrible snowball effect all for what? So you can save $1 or $2 each pot...?.... Whats that, around 1% of the average 1/2 No Limit pot? Wow. Do you also pack lunch in a cooler to avoid dining cost and tipping the drink girl? If things are that tight, do everyone a favor and just stay home and avoid the rake all together.
 
OzExorcist

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Ancient thread bump, but new info so what the hell...

You can seriously get out 30 hands in half an hour? Averaging one hand every minute? I'm not gonna say that's impossible... but that's got to be pretty close to impossible. You must have the most amazing groups of fast-acting players in the world to manage that :eek:

Even with shuffle machines and a shot clock, at my local casino if you get more than 25 hands per hour that'd be considered super fast. That's not a knock on the dealers in the slightest BTW, for the most part they're efficient and very good at their jobs. That's just because players don't always act quickly.

Dealers only getting paid $5/hr with no benefits is disgusting. It's more like $30/hr here, plus benefits, though dealers aren't allowed to accept tips.

I can't for the life of me understand why you'd want to be making deliberate mistakes just to screw someone who didn't give you tip though. I mean aside from everything else, doesn't that just burn time when you could be dealing more hands and taking money from the players who do actually tip?
 
Gothams Son

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For tournaments, while the standard tip is 5% many players tip 10%. Same goes for Bad Beat Jackpots.
Does this mean for each table that you are at or just the one you start at?
 
OzExorcist

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Does this mean for each table that you are at or just the one you start at?

I believe the standard for tournaments is a single tip when you get paid out, which the casino then divides up among all the staff that worked the tournament.

I understand some places include an amount for tips in the buyin though, so check with the tournament director or floor people.
 
A

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Omg!

Ancient thread bump, but new info so what the hell...

You can seriously get out 30 hands in half an hour? Averaging one hand every minute? I'm not gonna say that's impossible... but that's got to be pretty close to impossible. You must have the most amazing groups of fast-acting players in the world to manage that :eek:

Even with shuffle machines and a shot clock, at my local casino if you get more than 25 hands per hour that'd be considered super fast. That's not a knock on the dealers in the slightest BTW, for the most part they're efficient and very good at their jobs. That's just because players don't always act quickly.

Dealers only getting paid $5/hr with no benefits is disgusting. It's more like $30/hr here, plus benefits, though dealers aren't allowed to accept tips.

I can't for the life of me understand why you'd want to be making deliberate mistakes just to screw someone who didn't give you tip though. I mean aside from everything else, doesn't that just burn time when you could be dealing more hands and taking money from the players who do actually tip?

I am in disbelief, there is a 35 hand per hour minimum requirement to deal at my casino. And I can't imagine not being able to accept tips. No wonder why the dealers there don't move fast, there's no insentive to if they're making just a flat rate per hour, whether they deal 1 hand or 100 :-/
Not sure what limits are spread there, but if players are moving that slow, then there is far too much distraction or talking by the dealer, unless the whole table is just clueless, making a speech with every action & tanking for every hand... They're not ALL monsters, and a table of strong players should be able to cruise thru hands without even seeing a river most of the time. Here's a tip: only a fish can see every river.
Yea, if its moving that slow & I'm getting stiffed, I'd definitely purposely "throw" a whole half hour in the box. I only have 30 mins on the table so if I don't make at least $5 in the first 5 mins, then I already have spent almost a quarter of my time there with basically nothing to show for it. And its not only to screw the 1 player, like I said, that 1 player usually ends up influencing others not to tip, either by example or by feeling the need to explain the logic of why he's so cheap to the entire table.. So, that table ends up becoming a scrap, move onto the next.
You know, I just find the no tipping policy to be BS, I can't tell you how many times I get thrown a buck or 2 just for having a warm smile, or reminding a player to sign in for comp points, or for not taking offense when a player compliments the rack in my shirt instead of the rack in the table, I mean thats the very essence of tipping, not just some robotic dollar at the completion of each hand, hell, thats what the rake is LOL
As a matter of fact, I don't see how the casino employs these dealers with no minimum standard of hands per hour to obide by. The casino is loosing money! More hands per hour = more rake per hour... Yea, its sounding more & more like you have never dealt, just coming up with how you think it works...
 
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