How often are you willing to get it all-in pre flop with A,K?

This is so tricky to play and I hate it if I'm re-raised after I raised with it pre flop.

The problem I have is that people will play A,K like they play Aces or Kings for example and treat it as the nuts already. The amount of times I've folded Queens to shoves and found out I'm up against A,K really irrates me. I then sometimes go with my gut instict and call a shove only to find I'm totally dominated agaisn't Aces or Kings.

Is their a rule thumb you use when playing Ace,King?

People are will to shove in cash games, tournaments and SnG's yet I'm usually not so forth coming. The only time I'm happy to shove A,K is If I know a player is likely to shove with a weaker A,10+ card and if in tournament mode and low on blinds then it's very easy to shove or call with I'm just struggling with full stack play.

Is it very player dependent?

Cash games: I'm willing only if I'm up against someone who I know will shove with a weaker ace.

Tournament: Only willing to shove or call a shove in later stages.


There is also speculation that A,K is worth a shove or call of a shove in early blind levels of tournament play, is this true? Who does this? Also I see people quite happily shove A,K in cash games deep stacked and this is at all levels in poker not just micro limits..

Last but not least, are you willing to take a "flip" vs a pair with A,K? What circumstances will you let this happen in ? If you're quite sure you're up against any under pairs Queens and below when will you call a shove with or are you willing to do it every time at any stage in a tournament or cash game for that matter?

I just find this hand so frustrating and can't see a correct way to play it at all. Is it profitable to coin flip vs under pairs with full stacks or only profitable in tournament/short stack cash game mode to stack off with it?

Would love some Tournament players inputs on it and cash game players input regarding A,K in cash games.

Im a turbo tourny rush player and love getting it in pre-flop with AK. Since the tournys I play are fast blinds, and everyone has a low M, getting it in isn't a ton of BBs. Heads-Up I will almost always get it in preflop if I can and I'm not incredibly deep-stacked vs another deep-stack.

AK is a hand I would much rather get in pre-flop than have to play post-flop on a board like Q 7 3.

ramdeebam said:

There is also speculation that A,K is worth a shove or call of a shove in early blind levels of tournament play, is this true? Who does this?

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I am certainly of the opinion that AK can usefully be played very aggressively in the early stages of a MTT. I wrote something about that here and, although that thread was strictly more about post-flop play, it perhaps illustrates a little of the thought process.

First AK is just A high.

I almost never shove with AK early in tournaments. I don't want to coin flip my tournament. If it is later in the tourney that is a different story and a completely different situation. If i have 3x your chips and you shove i may call with AK. This is player dependent. Its hard to win a large pot with AK but really easy to lose a big pot.


I will raise a decent amount with AK but i don't want to shove. If i am short stacked i will shove AK if i am first to act.

In cash games i will play AK strong but i want to win the pot pre-flop or on the flop i don't want to be playing a big hand unless i flop a monster. this is true in tournaments too.

if i am short staked in a cash game i may push but i don't like to stay short stacked unless it in on purpose so i normally rebuy to not be short stacked.

AK is just a drawing hand.

I'd rather have 22.

You're a coinflip at best.

I wouldn't want to risk my tournament life on AK.

You know what they call AK? Anna Kournikova. Looks good but never wins!

baudib1 said:

AK is just a drawing hand.

I'd rather have 22.

You're a coinflip at best.

I wouldn't want to risk my tournament life on AK.

You know what they call AK? Anna Kournikova. Looks good but never wins!

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22 in a heads-up might be a coin flip but add just one more person and I dont want the pocket dueces. Ill take AK over low pairs anyday.

If you 3bet someone, then they 4-bet-shove and turn over 88, it would be a good idea to call. You have enough chips/cash already comitted to make flipping a +EV play.

That being said, if someone open-shoves and you don't know what they have...you should probably fold AK. AK is a very situational hand. No one here will be able to give you a "This is what you should do with AK" response. It is very hard to generalize a situation.

nc_royals said:

22 in a heads-up might be a coin flip but add just one more person and I dont want the pocket dueces. Ill take AK over low pairs anyday.

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Yeah I hate low pocket pairs in a tourney (especially early position), because they're drastically de-valued with each person that stays in.

To answer the OP, my favorite times to be all in pre-flop with ak would be if I'm short-stacked or if I've got 3-4x an all in's stack. I might get drawn into being all in if I end up pot committed before the betting stopes (it's most likely I was a short stack to begin with in this scenario anyway).Of course there are times in a cash game when I'd call because I've spotted someone that's willing to shove on a weaker ace (someone mentioned this earlier). I definitely wouldn't shove immediately early in a tourney unless it was the FTP 7,500 man every two hours haha.

Sorry if this post seems a little scattered. I was going back and reading through the thread while writing it and I was trying to cover a lot of topics.

my poast was ironiq

For me, it depends on stack sizes and the stage of the tournament.

As many others have already stated, it depends on the situation of the tourny, but generally i don't like to shove with AK unless i am real short stacked what i like to do if i am leading out is just bet like 4 times the BB plus 1 once for any limpers but you got to be careful if the flop is wacky imo

AK is the reason i left stars, when i loaded all my data into Pokertracker (150,000+ hands) it showed i lost 87% of all pre flop all ins with AK against a pair, and when i had a pair v AK all in pre flop i lost 75%. Nice!

Mikeg said:

AK is the reason i left stars, when i loaded all my data into Pokertracker (150,000+ hands) it showed i lost 87% of all pre flop all ins with AK against a pair, and when i had a pair v AK all in pre flop i lost 75%. Nice!

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I'd like to see how many AK's you ended up winning in total - not just preflop allins. How many hands did you have to draw from to get your 87% and 75%?

Tournament: with short stack will shove...

Cash: More often if either having a small stack myself or up against a small stack...

GL

aC

I would go all in with any cards if I could help it. Sometimes I'm on the 4th turnover and some idiot goes all in...so I don't have a choice..well much of one

Mikeg said:

AK is the reason i left stars, when i loaded all my data into Pokertracker (150,000+ hands) it showed i lost 87% of all pre flop all ins with AK against a pair, and when i had a pair v AK all in pre flop i lost 75%. Nice!

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You lost ~90% of all ins AK v any random pocket pair? :hmmmm:

How many times were you all in with AK v PP?

Jagsti said:

You lost ~90% of all ins AK v any random pocket pair? :hmmmm:

How many times were you all in with AK v PP?

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Haha that's what I was asking. He said he also lost with a pocket pair vs ak 75% if the time as well and he drew from over 150,000 hands.

that depened on how much you stuck on the cash game that i have left on the table and haw many hands i will need to play how much i am steaming if it is less that 50 % of my buy in i ready to chip it at any time from 75% to 100 % i preopley i want chip chip it unless it is suited and the other played is tight and the fold option from him is good but if he called i propley ahead

essambb said:

that depened on how much you stuck on the cash game that i have left on the table and haw many hands i will need to play how much i am steaming if it is less that 50 % of my buy in i ready to chip it at any time from 75% to 100 % i preopley i want chip chip it unless it is suited and the other played is tight and the fold option from him is good but if he called i propley ahead

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All in preflop means 100% of your stack - maybe you missed that in OP's post.

Also I don't quite get the logic -

i preopley i want chip chip it unless it is suited and the other played is tight and the fold option from him is good but if he called i propley ahead

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If you care to explain it to me in a way that I can understand it I'm going to put this into my sig line.

Egon Towst said:

I am certainly of the opinion that AK can usefully be played very aggressively in the early stages of a MTT. I wrote something about that here and, although that thread was strictly more about post-flop play, it perhaps illustrates a little of the thought process.

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Sometimes skimming through the answers really finds great stuff (Egon is always a candidate for that).

Here the link took me to a thread that was posted before I joined - and I would have totally missed it.

Thanks for posting that link Egon.

For me it all depends on the tournament. I think that in a turbo or early freeroll I probably would. Just because I don't have the patience or care enough to really pay attention in those unless I've got a good chip stack going and it's later in the tournament.

grafkarow said:

Thanks for posting that link Egon.

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You are most welcome, sir.

When I first started playing poker, I always used to get all my chips in the middle with AK because I knew my post-flop play was weak and shoving took any further decision-making away. To be honest, i've seen a full range of results with AK against different hands doing this. I've lost to 22 as well as QQ, KK and AA. I've lost to weaker aces. I've also beaten the monster pairs including AA when I've flopped a straight. So getting it all in pre-flop with AK will double you up a good amount of the time and it will also knock you out quite often. Now I'm more experienced, I'm much more mindful of looking at stack sizes and position etc. In the early stages of a tourney, if I'm reraised by someone and I'm going to be out of position, I'm more likely to fold and just wait for a better spot. In the late stages if I'm being blinded out and I'm low in chips that AK is being shoved all day long. I definitely have a clearer thought process about playing AK now though which has simply come with experience.

When to get it in w AK.
There's too many different scenarios I could lay out here where I'm going to be getting it in w AK that it'd be a book.
From reading many of the posts above, it got me to thinking about why tournament play is profitable in the 'longrun'. ie. "I don't shove AK unless I'm really shortstacked"... what? really? (or only if they're first one into the pot). really? AK is a GREAT hand to ship with overtop of a raise with a stack of say 15-25bb's so to say you wouldn't get it allin over a raise before ya.. is just really weird/odd/strange thinking to me.
Also, it depends on many factors in tournament play but one thing you're going to be considering is.. how much is already out there & what percentage of your stack is it. To suggest we dont' want to be 'flipping vs a pr' because we're only getting 2to1... when are we only getting 2to1? (what about the antes, blinds, any limpers.. a bet in before us.. or our raise & villain's 3bet, or villain's raise.. a caller.. now us with AK.. SHIP IT!!!.. many scenarios where we're getting wayyyy more than 2to1 & great spots to get it in.

This ^ is just barely touching on spots where we're going to be wanting to get it in w AK.

Oops, I don't think I answered OP's question > how often are you willing to get it allin with AK.
Answer: pretty much all the times where it seems to be the correct decision.