How much money can folding save you pls read?

2huskys · Dec 6, 2010

The question im trying to get across may be hard to do but basically what im trying to find out/say is wats more profitable folding more when you are not 100% sure if you are beat r not i.e. folding just to be safe so to speak rather than calling a half pot bet, mainly with second best hands or 3rd best hands or possibly trying to call of bluffs. Or calling in these situations.

like would it be more profitable to fold in such situations and wait for a better spot?this may be hard to do but any thoughts. Im trying to find out really how profitablly folding can be.obviously not to the point were your oppoenent is pushing you around though.

is it better to be safe than sorry im guessing yes but any rough numbers?

josephs333 · Dec 6, 2010

It's better to fold, but you have to know your opponent,,if he is tring to push you out by bluffing.

JohnBoyWWFC · Dec 6, 2010

There's really no way you can give rough numbers, but if you're playing safer, ie folding more, you're going to save yourself more money.

Seabrooknutzz · Dec 6, 2010

It seems that is a case by case decision.

skywalker606 · Dec 6, 2010

From experience, folding is the better play. However the size of the bet is always a factor.

PokerPete · Dec 6, 2010

2huskys said:
i.e. folding just to be safe so to speak rather than calling a half pot bet, mainly with second best hands or 3rd best hands or possibly trying to call of bluffs. Or calling in these situations.

By 2nd or 3rd "best hands" are you talking about top pair top kicker vs. top pair weaker kicker or are you talking about pairing one of the lower cards vs. what you think might be top pair by your opponent?

WVHillbilly · Dec 6, 2010

Pot odds and opponent's range. So you figure out how often you need to be good based on the odds you're getting to call and then you guess based on your opponents actions the hands he has in his range. Figure out how much of that range you beat and call when you beat enough of it to make calling +EV.

Simple non real world example:

Pot is $10 on river and your opponent bets $10.

The board is AJ379.

You have KK.

You somehow know your opponent has either QJ/JT/AQ/AK.

Should you call?

Well you need to be good 33% of the time to break even (2:1 or 10/30) and against the range of hands our opponent could have we're actually going to be good greater than 50% of the time (we beat 24 of 45 combos), so we should call.

PC69 · Dec 6, 2010

WVHillbilly said:
Pot odds and opponent's range. So you figure out how often you need to be good based on the odds you're getting to call and then you guess based on your opponents actions the hands he has in his range. Figure out how much of that range you beat and call when you beat enough of it to make calling +EV.

Simple non real world example:

Pot is $10 on river and your opponent bets $10.

The board is AJ379.

You have KK.

You somehow know your opponent has either QJ/JT/AQ/AK.

Should you call?

Well you need to be good 33% of the time to break even (2:1 or 10/30) and against the range of hands our opponent could have we're actually going to be good greater than 50% of the time (we beat 24 of 45 combos), so we should call.

Bro. I got a question for you. Does the knowledge your brain has ever make your head feel like its gonna asplode?

PokerPete · Dec 6, 2010

PC69 said:
Bro. I got a question for you. Does the knowledge your brain has ever make your head feel like its gonna asplode?

...occasionally, the knowledge that he posts makes mine feel that way

only_bridge · Dec 6, 2010

If opponent bets half pot on river, and we know he is either bluffing, or has us beat, then we should call if he bluffs more than 1/5 of the times, and fold if he bluffs more seldom.

If he bluffs exactly 20% of the time, then we should mix up calling with folding.

(providing our only choice is to call or fold, and no one else is in the pot. And providing some other things as well, such as ICM, rake, table image.)

2huskys · Dec 6, 2010

yes but i was more meaning towards 2nd 3rd or maybe 4th nuts like two pair when your oppenent may have a flush or something similar.i no a lot depends on your oppent but overall would it be more profitable to be safe and fold in these situations were you may have the 2nd best hand if ur unsure? now if he was bluffing a flush 100% of the time itd obv be a call.

2huskys · Dec 6, 2010

WVHillbilly said:
Pot odds and opponent's range. So you figure out how often you need to be good based on the odds you're getting to call and then you guess based on your opponents actions the hands he has in his range. Figure out how much of that range you beat and call when you beat enough of it to make calling +EV.

Simple non real world example:

Pot is $10 on river and your opponent bets $10.

The board is AJ379.

You have KK.

You somehow know your opponent has either QJ/JT/AQ/AK.

Should you call?

Well you need to be good 33% of the time to break even (2:1 or 10/30) and against the range of hands our opponent could have we're actually going to be good greater than 50% of the time (we beat 24 of 45 combos), so we should call.

yea i understand this nd would do that when i can but what do u do if you cant put your oppenent on a particular range of hands or you may not no how he plays

vanquish · Dec 6, 2010

WVHillbilly said:
Well you need to be good 33% of the time to break even.

lets say you know (or are almost completely sure) you're good 33% of the time (the breakeven point). do you call or fold?

WVHillbilly · Dec 6, 2010

vanquish said:
lets say you know (or are almost completely sure) you're good 33% of the time (the breakeven point). do you call or fold?

EV is zero either way so it really doesn't matter but I call cause **** them (and I like calling).

Pokerstudent · Dec 6, 2010

WVHillbilly said:
Pot odds and opponent's range. So you figure out how often you need to be good based on the odds you're getting to call and then you guess based on your opponents actions the hands he has in his range. Figure out how much of that range you beat and call when you beat enough of it to make calling +EV.

Simple non real world example:

Pot is $10 on river and your opponent bets $10.

The board is AJ379.

You have KK.

You somehow know your opponent has either QJ/JT/AQ/AK.

Should you call?

Well you need to be good 33% of the time to break even (2:1 or 10/30) and against the range of hands our opponent could have we're actually going to be good greater than 50% of the time (we beat 24 of 45 combos), so we should call.

The way you put it into words, it's like MAGIC....

And I'm serious. You help a lot. Keep doing it for the learners like me!

HoldemLady · Dec 8, 2010

If it was me I would not call nor would I fold especially if I feel I have the better hand. To answer your question I too think folding is the right call especially if you want to be around in the later rounds.

Michelle

kmixer · Dec 8, 2010

WV....can we simply use pot odds here or do we also have to factor play stats and the way he has player the other streets. If he is a 16/9 vs a 70/2 I have to imagine we are calling the 70/2 easier than we are calling the 16/9 or does this not matter at all?

Theblueduce · Dec 8, 2010

I try not to make it too complicated on myself......If I think I have the best hand I bet...period.

WVHillbilly · Dec 8, 2010

kmixer said:
WV....can we simply use pot odds here or do we also have to factor play stats and the way he has player the other streets. If he is a 16/9 vs a 70/2 I have to imagine we are calling the 70/2 easier than we are calling the 16/9 or does this not matter at all?

It's pot odds and range. Since 16/9s and 70/2s have different ranges I'd say you'll have to play them differently.

Although your assumption about calling a 70/2 more often than a 16/9 is probably off. 70/2s are calling stations so you'd better watch out when he bets into you on an Ace high board if you hold KK (the example I posted) because he has an Ace at a minimum.

arrytus · Dec 9, 2010

WVHillbilly said:
Pot odds and opponent's range. So you figure out how often you need to be good based on the odds you're getting to call and then you guess based on your opponents actions the hands he has in his range. Figure out how much of that range you beat and call when you beat enough of it to make calling +EV.

Simple non real world example:

Pot is $10 on river and your opponent bets $10.

The board is AJ379.

You have KK.

You somehow know your opponent has either QJ/JT/AQ/AK.

Should you call?

Well you need to be good 33% of the time to break even (2:1 or 10/30) and against the range of hands our opponent could have we're actually going to be good greater than 50% of the time (we beat 24 of 45 combos), so we should call.

quality answer here. i enjoy when people online can be informative without being condescending or sarcastic [though i perhaps don't always live up to such an ideal myself]. kudos sir

How much money can folding save you pls read?

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