How much faith do you put into Sharkscope?

IntenseHeat

IntenseHeat

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I’ve been playing in tourneys where one player didn’t care for the way another player plaid a hand. As usual, the one player calls the other a donkey. Sometimes they go back and forth. And then one player refers to the other’s sharkscope stats. “You’ve lost $300 and your ROI is -35%. You must really suck”. How much faith do you put into Sharkscope? How much do you let Sharkscope influence your opinion of players you never played with before? The numbers don’t lie, right? But are they accurate?

I personally don’t put much stock into other people’s Sharkscope numbers or my own, for that matter. I believe it is flawed. I know for a fact that it doesn’t accurately report all tournament winnings. I am not sure why, but I believe it has to do with the way you enter certain tournaments. Maybe someone with a better understanding of workings of Sharkscope can shed some light on this.

Here’s what I do know. On intertops, I could win one of their daily freerolls and be awarded with a ticket to thier $1k GTD tourney on Sunday. I could win that tourney and be awarded the first prize, which is usually about $450, due to low participation. For whatever reason, that $450 will not show up on Sharkscope. However, if I were to lose that $450 or portion of it, then the loss would show up. So in my case, I have won the Sunday $1k GTD multiple times, as well as cashing in it multiple times. I have also won their Friday $250 GTD - Bounty tournament. I entered each of these tournaments using tickets that I had won playing the daily freeroll tourneys. For whatever reason none of those winnings (aprox. $2000), have ever showed up on Sharkscope. On the other hand, the money I have lost on Intertops, does show up on sharkscope. The net of all of this is that I show profit of -$735 and an ROI of -6% on site where I have never deposited a single dime, but have won over $2000 on.

It’s pretty much the same with Carbon Poker. The freerolls used award tickets and for some places a combination of a ticket and cash. The cash portion of the prize would show up on Sharkscope, while the value of the ticket wouldn’t. So if you were to win an $11.00 satellite ticket and $2.20 in real money, then Sharkscope would show you up $2.20. If you were to lose that $2.20 then Sharkscope would show you even. That makes sense. Here is where the flaw comes in. I have an $11.00 satellite ticket. I use that ticket to enter a tourney and win and entry into a $100k tourney. I min-cash in that tourney, winning $209.00. That $209 doesn’t show up on Sharkscope. Over the next 3 months I lose that $209.00. Now Sharkscope shows me down $209. In actuality, I lost the same $209 that I won which should make me even.

Not that it matters to me. I tend to put this in the same category as when a player makes an obvious bluff, then calls you a donk for calling that bluff. They then announce that they are tagging you as a bad player. I say feel free. In fact, spread the word and tell all your friends how bad I play. I love to be underestimated. That goes for anyone who looks at Sharkscope and makes assumptions about my skill based on information that I know to be inaccurate.

So, once again, my question to you is, how much faith do you put into Sharkscope? Do you ever judge other players based on their Sharkskope statistics?
 
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duggs

duggs

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i put alot of faith in it,
knowing the average buyin, cashes, and number of games is awesome for determining if someone should be any good,

spewing at the table is a bigger tell than scope tho
 
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luke124

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i never use sharkscope i always use opr
 
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RamdeeBen

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Well; I think they are accurate enough.

I've played 5k+ SnGs since the beginning of december and it's missing like 5 tournaments in total, so quite good.
 
IntenseHeat

IntenseHeat

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i put alot of faith in it,
knowing the average buyin, cashes, and number of games is awesome for determining if someone should be any good,

spewing at the table is a bigger tell than scope tho

I hear you duggs.

When I first gave online poker a try it was on a membership site. This site had a feature whereby you could click on a players avatar and it would take you to that player's profile page. At a glance you could see information such as how long a player had been a member of the site, how many total hands they had played, how many final tables they had made, how many tourneys they had won and their player of the rank. So if you saw on a player's profile that they had been member for quite some time, had played a large number of hands, but had only made three final tables, never won anything, and were part of 583 player tie for 398th place in the POY race, you could make a safe assumption that their game was going to have a few leaks in it.
 
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wagnert

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I used sharkscope a lot before black friday. I never use it now since the only site I currently play on is bovada. I noticed when I was using it, it would miss a sit and go every now and then that I played in but I do think it is relatively accurate.
 
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JamMastaJT

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I trust Sharkscope, quite a lot. It has a great 'overall' view, yes it missing some SnGs or MTTs but for the most part it gives me a great idea about a player. I enjoy using it.
 
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PhilJ

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It's enough info and accuracy to at least differentiate the pros/regs from noobs/donks. Any of them like OPR,PLabs, or PokerOptimizer.com give decent info to make broader evaluations on opponents. They won't be perfect, don't think anyone can be 100% accurate.
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

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Does it do cash games too?
 
curtinsea

curtinsea

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Sharkscope has flaws . . .

1) Private tourneys are not usually counted, wins or losses
2) If you satty into a game in a freeroll, but do not cash in the target tourney, sharkscope reflects a loss in the amount of the buy-in to the target tourney. For instance, I got into the $100K GTD on Lock in a freeroll, and finished near the bubble. Sharkscope reflects a $109 loss, though I really lost nothing.
3) for rebuy games, Sharkscope reflects the total prize pool/number of entries . . . . effectively an "average" buy-in which is usually about 3x. This often underreports cashes and over reports losses
 
MadMaddie

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Sharkscope and PPL do tournaments. OPR does cash games.
What is PPL?
I thought OPR shows tournament results?

I have never used sharkscope but I think it would be good information to know if the other player has played in alot of games and if they are a winning or losing player.
 
XXPXXP

XXPXXP

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i think the most over estimated or under estimated part is from rebuy and add on MTTs, who knows who buy in how many times? also KO part is very hard to accurate estimated as well!
 
Colbefc

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I use Sharkscope a lot but agree that freerolls shouldnt be counted as they do distort the figures :(
 
dmorris68

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It's fairly accurate in terms of game results. Depending on the types of games you play, it's not necessarily very accurate in terms of winnings and ROI, as you pointed out. If you satellite or ticket into a game, it only knows the buy-in is $X, it doesn't know you got in for free or a reduced cost, so it counts that buy-in against your results, skewing your ROI. Generally speaking, if you play primarily freerolls, steps, private games, etc. then it's not really relevant for you.

However for actual buy-in games, particularly SNGs, it's pretty accurate over larger sample sizes.

Sharkscope and PPL do tournaments. OPR does cash games.

OPR is tournaments. PTR is cash games.

OPR is fine for MTTs and large multi-table SNGs, but it does not track STTs or the smaller SNGs. I think 45's are the smallest, IIRC.

What is PPL?

Pro Poker Labs.
 
suit2please

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Listen to him. i haven't really used any of them for a couple years. Thought i looked before typing.

It's fairly accurate in terms of game results. Depending on the types of games you play, it's not necessarily very accurate in terms of winnings and ROI, as you pointed out. If you satellite or ticket into a game, it only knows the buy-in is $X, it doesn't know you got in for free or a reduced cost, so it counts that buy-in against your results, skewing your ROI. Generally speaking, if you play primarily freerolls, steps, private games, etc. then it's not really relevant for you.

However for actual buy-in games, particularly SNGs, it's pretty accurate over larger sample sizes.



OPR is tournaments. PTR is cash games.

OPR is fine for MTTs and large multi-table SNGs, but it does not track STTs or the smaller SNGs. I think 45's are the smallest, IIRC.



Pro Poker Labs.
 
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