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dwrec
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Besides putting the hours in of play per week. I would like to know what else i can contribute to help my poker game. Reading and watching videos I know of but theres got to be more any suggestions?!
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PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
Actually that's where I'm at now, I really don't play much because I'm studying poker. There is a difference between reading and studying a book, some books are just fine to read but others need to be studied, and example is Texas Hold'em: Odds and Probabilities this one is taking me a long time to get through. Actively participate in the cash game hand analysis thread, if you think one way about a play post it and see the comments in reply and you can build a discussion about why your reasoning is correct or incorrect, that will really change your perception of the game.
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PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
As many will tell you here you can't look at one hand, did you make the correct decision? you didn't see their hole cards so you had EP raiser (what's his range?) you raised, how much, did you have EP covered, were you covered by later positions? LP caller and Button raise all in. Were you already pot commited? could you have walked away from this hand? getting rivered always sucks but it will happen did you make a correct decision to call the all in? If you can say "well button is very loose and plays almost every hand with any two cards and EP over-values small pairs" then you know you made the right choice it just didn't turn out the way you hoped. Variance gets everyone.
alaskabill
Legend
Silver Level
Great topic. I think this goes to the idea that Malcolm Gladwell discusses in "Outliers" of "deliberate practice". Whenever we work on poker we need to work in a way aimed specifically at getting better.
If we play 100,000 hands but we play them mindlessly in the same way that we always have than we have done nothing to get better. If we play 100,000 hands but we are constantly focused when we play, we are consciously choosing the play that we are making, even when it seems automatic, and we are thinking about why we take our actions, than we will see a leap in our playing ability. I believe that there is no substitute for putting in a lot of quality time at the tables. You get better, ultimately by playing poker and thinking about what you are doing.
As for study away from the tables, there is no magic secret. Read forums, watch videos, post and ask questions. Also, don't be afraid to reread things. Just because you've already read an article, sticky, or whatever, don't think that you can't learn more from it. Lots of times I have come back to a post or article weeks or months later and something clicks with my recent experience and I get a whole different level of understanding about it.
I'll give an example from the world of chess. Mikhail Tal was world champion in the sixties and one of the greatest players ever. He once said that he regularly watched chess programs (in the old soviet union chess was on tv a lot) aimed at beginners because it always helped to review the basics.
TL;dr cliffs: Play a lot and play mindfully
Read forums, stickies etc and re read things often to get new perspectives.
If we play 100,000 hands but we play them mindlessly in the same way that we always have than we have done nothing to get better. If we play 100,000 hands but we are constantly focused when we play, we are consciously choosing the play that we are making, even when it seems automatic, and we are thinking about why we take our actions, than we will see a leap in our playing ability. I believe that there is no substitute for putting in a lot of quality time at the tables. You get better, ultimately by playing poker and thinking about what you are doing.
As for study away from the tables, there is no magic secret. Read forums, watch videos, post and ask questions. Also, don't be afraid to reread things. Just because you've already read an article, sticky, or whatever, don't think that you can't learn more from it. Lots of times I have come back to a post or article weeks or months later and something clicks with my recent experience and I get a whole different level of understanding about it.
I'll give an example from the world of chess. Mikhail Tal was world champion in the sixties and one of the greatest players ever. He once said that he regularly watched chess programs (in the old soviet union chess was on tv a lot) aimed at beginners because it always helped to review the basics.
TL;dr cliffs: Play a lot and play mindfully
Read forums, stickies etc and re read things often to get new perspectives.
darkassassin89
Legend
Silver Level
THIS
^^^^^^^^^IF you are new to the study of poker, this should be your study to play ratio
70% study/30% actual play
L
luckyhearts
Rock Star
Silver Level
My method so far has been LOSE A LOT OF MONEY!
lessons are not free, lol
Every once in a while I see something interesting in a book or on tv, but for the most part you just cant replace playing tons of hands, its as much experience as anything.
lessons are not free, lol
Every once in a while I see something interesting in a book or on tv, but for the most part you just cant replace playing tons of hands, its as much experience as anything.
Roller
Legend
Platinum Level
Have other respected players critique your game/play, listen with an open mind and correct weaknesses as necessary.
Concentrate on Hand Analysis to discover additional leaks.
Develop the ability to Eliminate Mental Distractions and remain Focused on each decision/situation without distractions or lack of Focus.
Concentrate on Hand Analysis to discover additional leaks.
Develop the ability to Eliminate Mental Distractions and remain Focused on each decision/situation without distractions or lack of Focus.
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spstevens
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think Roller brings up a great point about listening to advice with an open mind , its very easy to get defensive or prideful when our weak spots ase pointed out (sometimes bluntly) but if it is good advice use it. Players work a lifetime to overcome emotion clouding their play , might as well start at the study level to fix that leak.
Shwiggler
Rock Star
Silver Level
I highly recommend using the application Leak Buster to analyze your database. It will point you towards your trouble spots and give you a ton of information in the form of videos and written advice to help you correct them. Also, if you can afford a coach you should go for it. There is nothing like a one on one coaching session with a winning player to get you on the right track.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
Alaskabill said it wee above IMO.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/hole-card-confessions-study-group-owen-204268/
^^ this is one way to improve if you play cash games. A good book and a good concept on how to use it.
Read the forums, look at what others say, and try it out. Some stuff floats your boat, other stuff dont. Thats ok. It takes time. I think my biggest piece of advice is.... Be patient. Play hands, but review hands. Just playing - like bill said - aint enough. Just study aint enough. The balance that is right for you, it aint written in stone. You have to keep trying, and see what works.
Sometimes you spend some time only to find that what you are concentrating on doesent help you, or doesent keep you interested,. Thats fine. It is not wasted time. It is a process. As long as you are seeking, you will eventually find, if I may be so cliche'....
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/general-poker-13/hole-card-confessions-study-group-owen-204268/
^^ this is one way to improve if you play cash games. A good book and a good concept on how to use it.
Read the forums, look at what others say, and try it out. Some stuff floats your boat, other stuff dont. Thats ok. It takes time. I think my biggest piece of advice is.... Be patient. Play hands, but review hands. Just playing - like bill said - aint enough. Just study aint enough. The balance that is right for you, it aint written in stone. You have to keep trying, and see what works.
Sometimes you spend some time only to find that what you are concentrating on doesent help you, or doesent keep you interested,. Thats fine. It is not wasted time. It is a process. As long as you are seeking, you will eventually find, if I may be so cliche'....
D
dwrec
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Thank you all for the ideas... reading over things again again to almost memorization where its stuck in your head will deff help me get the most out of an article or topic. I also really never considered it but taking up a coach could prove to be really helpful.
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dwrec
Enthusiast
Silver Level
One more thing can some of you recommend any good books that have deff helped you. Im talking about the ones that really got you thinking and give you a different prospective on the game. I would like to know where to start with some grade A books.
P
PotluckXXI
Visionary
Silver Level
Did someone say books?
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/books-202404/
there are more but I'm trying to build a database.
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/books-202404/
there are more but I'm trying to build a database.
fletchdad
Jammin................
Loyaler
I would start with books before getting a coach. Make sure you have the basics down, no need to pay x$s/hr for info you can get from a book.
Please say what games you play and you will get some good book suggestions.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Regarding books, let me use the example of Harrington on Holdem, and his tourney series (HoH1,2,3).
I've heard they are outdated.....ha!
Thing is with that particular series (and probably any other decent book) is that when you first read it, your game is such that you recognize certain things and only think you recognize others. Re-reading offers new insights since you have internalized much of what you read are are then prepared to actually digest the previously read stuff that you thought you understood, but really didn't.
I think I have read HoH 3 times. I have another book, by Susie Isaacs, with 1000 tips. I have it in my reading room, and read a few tips every day. Total re-reads on this book is probably 5, but each time I read a tip it triggers some new response. Each of those tips is a paragraph about a situation or concept. Beginner to advanced. It is amazing how often I find I have reverted to some beginner flaw while my advanced understanding of the game is much better.
Moral of this blab is to re-read, and restudy, all those things that make sense to you because maybe you didn't get all out of it that you could have.
Other considerations...
Have you found your game yet..in this case meaning have you decided to concentrate on Ring or tourney? Holdem or Omaha? etc. etc. Jumping around different games and formats, while fine in the long run might not be a good way to get comfortable with your game quickly. Also bankroll considerations need to be addressed. Bankroll Management threads abound, and will always be a profitable read.
I've heard they are outdated.....ha!
Thing is with that particular series (and probably any other decent book) is that when you first read it, your game is such that you recognize certain things and only think you recognize others. Re-reading offers new insights since you have internalized much of what you read are are then prepared to actually digest the previously read stuff that you thought you understood, but really didn't.
I think I have read HoH 3 times. I have another book, by Susie Isaacs, with 1000 tips. I have it in my reading room, and read a few tips every day. Total re-reads on this book is probably 5, but each time I read a tip it triggers some new response. Each of those tips is a paragraph about a situation or concept. Beginner to advanced. It is amazing how often I find I have reverted to some beginner flaw while my advanced understanding of the game is much better.
Moral of this blab is to re-read, and restudy, all those things that make sense to you because maybe you didn't get all out of it that you could have.
Other considerations...
Have you found your game yet..in this case meaning have you decided to concentrate on Ring or tourney? Holdem or Omaha? etc. etc. Jumping around different games and formats, while fine in the long run might not be a good way to get comfortable with your game quickly. Also bankroll considerations need to be addressed. Bankroll Management threads abound, and will always be a profitable read.
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dj11
Legend
Silver Level
Do you have a tracker ?
If so, then post your general stats as a start in perhaps the learning poker forum. From those we can start a collective effort at improving your game. Or perhaps you have more specific questions about specific situations.
Ask away, we love a challenge....
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