How do inexperienced players/donkeys justify bad play in their mind?

Hello all. I'm a frequent guest here, but I finally decided to just sign up. Anyway, I was just pondering on a topic that I haven't yet seen posted. (if it has, please point me in that direction) On a general basis, What kind of reasoning is going on in the mind of an inexperienced player when he calls off a big portion of his stack post flop with practically nothing? Let me create a situation. You have roughly 25000 chips. Blinds 500/1000. it's folded to you and you pick up AhAs in the small blind and raise to 4000. Big Blind has just over 60k in chips and calls. Flop comes Ad 4s 10d. You bet the pot size of 9500 leaving you with 15500 in chips. big blind calls again. Turn comes 8d. you go all in and big blind calls and shows Jd5h. River comes 2d giving him a flush to beat your trip Aces. This type of thing happens quite frequently especially in the lower limits. Just wondering if anybody ever thought about how they convince themselves that these plays are benificial to them.

NOTE: this is not an indirect way of saying online poker is rigged. Even with all the sick beats I've taken, I've never once blamed the site, or seen any good reason that online poker rooms would rig their software to favor certain players. Just to square that away.

Inexperienced = uneducated in poker. AKA: They don't know any better. These are truly the best type of opponents you could ever hope to be up against.

I think some bad players just play the game as if its 100% luck like craps or roulette and hope to win with luck. They may not mind sometimes calling in a hand as a 25% underdog as they're just in the game to gamble and aern't bothered to outplay the other players and get their money in as a favourite, if that makes sense.
Others obviously are trying to play well, but simply don't know what they're doing.
Certainly not all inexperienced players are donkeys. Some people who have natural ability may just read a couple of books and get to a high decent very fast, although their lack of experience will still show in certain situations.

I used to play in a bar league a all they do is justify there bad play its incredible the things they say.I couldn't imagine the stuff there thinking.I'm sure everyone has heard "it's suited" or "5 jack off suit is my favorite hand it always hits for me".I always do stuff I think is right but I'm sure some of its not and if someone asked me why I did what I did I would have a reason Why,but it just might not be the ones thats right.I would say that everyone does that.

Variance. Or if they're unfamiliar with that term, "that guy's a luckbox".

DOOM_TRAIN said:

This type of thing happens quite frequently especially in the lower limits. Just wondering if anybody ever thought about how they convince themselves that these plays are benificial to them.

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This. The lower the limit the worst the players. They do not know any better. They have no clue that they are playing bad. Yeah, suckouts happen, but aren't these the players you want to play against? Learn to get over being sucked out on,and go on. Remember, good players get sucked out on more often becuase there ahead and not behind when they get there money in.

I see some call downs that have me scratching my head! I gave up tring to possible imagine what the wee thinking. And just make a note of it and use it hopefully later if there not busted by then.

tpb221 said:

Remember, good players get sucked out on more often becuase there ahead and not behind when they get there money in.

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Oh I like that. Thank you, now I might feel a little better when it happens.

I love players like this at my table. I've had some of my biggest cash pots ever against players like this. Just be patient, yes you went in with the nuts at the time but there was some big draws out there that players with very little experience will call to try and get, the trick I find is move in with the absolute nuts, Full house and the donk is trying to draw to a flush so you have him crushed anyway, or if you have the flush and there is str8 draws that the donk is trying to hit.

Good luck

As a new player myself...they may just not understand all of the rules yet! Or they really are doing a very good bluff to win! Never underestimate the human factor that drives each of us in this game! That plays a huge part, along with luck & skill...and each game & each hand will be totally different in certain situations! They may be 'on tilt', distracted as I am frequently with my cat walking across my keyboard, or any other emotional things that affect us. It's just poker...plain & simple. GL on your next!

They don't need no justification that's why they are called donkeys in the first place....

When I first started, I thought this game was about drawing to the best hand. I did not understand starting hands, position and the skill that was involved. I know I have gotten better because I don't get ppl swearing at me at the tables anymore, lol
But i do think alot of the "donkeys" just don't understand the game.

Those types seriously screw with my "ability" to hand read. I'm not learning anything. I try value-betting against a ridiculously large range, but god forbid I try to bluff somebody--I'll get called down by J-high and a gutshot.

PooffyFooffy said:

When I first started, I thought this game was about drawing to the best hand. I did not understand starting hands, position and the skill that was involved. I know I have gotten better because I don't get ppl swearing at me at the tables anymore, lol
But i do think alot of the "donkeys" just don't understand the game.

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i swear at you everytime you are at the table!!!
we know the donks when we see em....LOL~!!
s
and i agree...the inexp/donk does not know any better to think his pp 7s are good and calls down with 3 overs out.... especially the VB on the river that he goes..."oh that is low enuff to call.. "

daxter70 said:

i swear at you everytime you are at the table!!!

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Lmao that's a different kind of swearing I hope.

Like you may say Fing B*&^( instead of Fing Donkey.


I know you <3 me

i love donkeys. If one of them raises and u call or the opposite way round and say u hold:
QhAs flop: Qs5s2d. They bet and u re-raise and they instant think ur on a flush draw! It's so funny.
If u have top pair, 2 pair or a set on these type of boards, jus get all ur money in and they'll insta think ur weak on a draw and will call u down even with no pair or middle pair, sometimes bottompair. It's so funny!
I love these donkeys.

DOOM_TRAIN said:

What kind of reasoning is going on in the mind of an inexperienced player when he calls off a big portion of his stack post flop with practically nothing?

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I noticed you play at UltimateBet. I think one reason (there are many) that you see bad people playing bad Holdem is on sites like UB that not only have the poker, but also other gambling games (roulette, blackjack, etc.) is the players from the gambling room drift over into the Holdem games because they see it on tv and want to play, without any concept of the game. So you will see the bad plays much more at the low levels.

First of all I think they think all others but themselves
- and especially those who win hands against the odds -
are donkeys. I feel you have to love them.

Baby Jesus said:

I used to play in a bar league a all they do is justify there bad play its incredible the things they say.

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It's not just bar leagues. I've been in tourneys at AC and it was AK vs. AQ and the lady with AQ was like..."ooohh it's a race".

As for the OP, in your example...pretty much any time an inexperienced player can chase any kind of flush, they'll usually do it, especially if they won't go broke or get eliminated in the process.

Hey!, I could hit the flush, and if I do..........

Typical lower limit player...they get even worse in the free rolls. To them it's a numbers game - they figure the more lower limit tourneys they play in, the better chance they have to win one - even making stupid calls, etc. They don't know the real mathematics - that they will lose much more than they win by playing that way - if they hit their 4 outers once every 10 - 11 times, they just seem to remember the one time they hit it, vs the 10 times they missed. Unfortunately, there are so many of these horrible players in the lower limit tourneys that it makes it difficult to overcome getting bad - beated at some point in the tourney. 90& of the time I exit a tourney at the lower levels is b/c I was bad beated vs. any mistake of my own.

I think it has to do alot with T.V. poker. Yes poker on TV has introduced many more players to the game. However the way they edit is sometimes a bad thing for the game also. New players watch TV and don't realize that they are not showing every hand,they think wow I saw so and so call with nothing and hit a 4 card flush to win or hit the straight to win, so I'm gonna play any 2 cards because any 2 cards can win. They don't know that that is just a mere fraction of the hands that were played and they show the hands that were the bad beats or big pots, they don't know that that guy probably folded his last 25-30 hands and just happened to pick that hand to make a move a try to get something going.

On the other hand it could be just people that have high bankrolls just screwing around making people mad. They come into a micro stakes just to purposly play like an idiot to get people riled up.

Bad players do not think they are making bad plays. They are highly influenced by what they see on TV, and over bluff and make bad calls. We see them as terrible players who are just lucky, but they really don't know the proper way to play.

I would echo the don't know any better comment. They will rely on being lucky and sometimes they hit. Gotta love them at your table though.

I like having the donkey at my table, I just don't like when he calls. cause though I know its not rigged...I invariably have his needs figured out and watch them get placed on the table for the "luckbox". I have a straight, he runner-runners a flush...or higher straight. My AK vs AQ is a surefire loser for me on an all-in preflop. As I said I would like them at my table, and sometimes I am them (lol) just don't say sorry after the suckut...that really p.o's me off.

Waboca